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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
 Posted - 08/31/2001 : 05:49:10
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Poll Question:
Is there any evidence that Gulf War Syndrome is at all a physical malady?
A new survey in the U.K. shows that 1 in 6 Gulf War veterans believe they have it. A telling quote from the article:
quote:
The most important factor associated with belief was knowing someone else who thought they had the condition.
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_386537.html?menu=news.latestheadlines
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 08/31/2001 05:49:39
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
 Posted - 08/31/2001 : 05:52:46 [Permalink]
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This is a topic that Dr. Dean Edell has touched upon many times. According to him (and the numerous studies and publications he cites), there is no evidence of any physiological cause for any of the symptoms of so-called Gulf War Syndrome. In fact, studies have shown that Gulf War veterans who claim to have it are statistically no more ill than anyone else in the general population (just like the silicon breast implantees).
I thought maybe since we had a couple of veterans of the Gulf War here, that we could get some incite from you guys, if you have any.
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Hope springs eternal but there's no conviction
Actions mistaken for lip service paid
All this concern is the true contradiction
The world is insane... |
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Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2001 : 06:19:04 [Permalink]
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I have to go with the good Doctor.
Michael Fumento talks about it a lot, too.
http://www.fumento.com/
I was on active duty during the Persian Gulf, but did not deploy there, though several close friends did.
My kids still love me. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2001 : 07:51:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Is there any evidence that Gulf War Syndrome is at all a physical malady?
A new survey in the U.K. shows that 1 in 6 Gulf War veterans believe they have it. A telling quote from the article:
quote:
The most important factor associated with belief was knowing someone else who thought they had the condition.
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_386537.html?menu=news.latestheadlines
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 08/31/2001 05:49:39
I have a few friends who are Gulf War vets. They told me that the biological attack sirens were almost always running. Since Sadam was researching biologic agents possible for use in his defense, he may have actually gotten some of them far enough forward. Gulf War Syndrome exists within the realm of possiblity but further study is needed by an independant source on whether or not biological warfare was used in small parts of the front.
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2001 : 08:11:38 [Permalink]
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I really don't know. I wasn't in the Gulf until 1999. As far as GWS, there's so much argument, level-headed and hysterical on both sides of the issue. Chemical/biological weapons? Vaccines? Parasites? Take your pick.
BTW, if you're ever offered the Anthrax vaccine, run like hell. I was sick for days after each one, arm swollen like a football, and felt like someone had gone to town on my body with a baseball bat. Not recommended.
Lisa
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2001 : 09:03:25 [Permalink]
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I was on active duty during the Gulf War also. However, I remained stateside while my unit deployed. Damn CMC!
Anyway, none of those I know (at least the few I've kept in contact with) had or have had any of the symptons.
Yeah, several of my friends just started sleeping with gas masks on because of the sirens going off constantly. The worst case I saw coming back from the Gulf was Nick. He was in Kuwait during clean up of the fires. He was blowing black smoke from his lungs for at least 2 months after returning. His lungs had basically filled with the oily soot from the fires. But I don't think he's had any further problems.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2001 : 13:11:35 [Permalink]
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I don't know. It seems I read an artical on it a couple of weeks ago, but don't recall where nor by whom.
This reminds me a lot of the Agent Orange debate of the late '70' and '80s. Much debunking of what turned out to be a serious matter. I remember an officer lecturing about it as it was just being deployed. To demonstrate and reassure the grunts of it's 'harmlessness', he actually drank a shot glass of it.
To this day, I believe that drink was doctored up water. Nobody is that stupid, are they?
f
The more I learn about people, the better I like rattlesnakes. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2001 : 07:25:07 [Permalink]
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There is no doubt that some veterans are sick, but I think what has happened is that there are a lot of different problems being lumped under the term "Gulf War Syndrome."
quote:
I don't know. It seems I read an artical on it a couple of weeks ago, but don't recall where nor by whom.
This reminds me a lot of the Agent Orange debate of the late '70' and '80s. Much debunking of what turned out to be a serious matter. I remember an officer lecturing about it as it was just being deployed. To demonstrate and reassure the grunts of it's 'harmlessness', he actually drank a shot glass of it.
To this day, I believe that drink was doctored up water. Nobody is that stupid, are they?
f
The more I learn about people, the better I like rattlesnakes.
Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a "war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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TFarnon
New Member
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2002 : 20:57:00 [Permalink]
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Anecdotally, as a Persian Gulf War veteran, I can say that yes, I have symptoms which appeared subsequent to my gulf war service. I am much more sensitive to pesticides (carbamates and organophosphates) now. Concentrations in the air that don't affect "normal" people produce classic cholinesterase inhibition symptoms in me. And no, the first time it happened I was NOT expecting it. There was no funny smell. I had no reason to believe I would have a problem.
I have other increased chemical sensitivities. They don't affect my life much. I try to avoid organic solvents, student organic chemistry laboratories and crawling around on chemically treated lawns.
I have increased allergies. During the Gulf War, I became allergic to beef and cheese. Most people consider MRE's (the rations in a bag) constipating. For me, they acted like ex-lax. A little experimenting and some allergy testing after my return showed that the things causing the diarrhea were beef, carrots and cheese. Prior to deployment I could eat all of those things in any quantity.
I also got cutaneous Leishmaniasis. Or so I think. When I saw a photo of a cutaneous Leishmaniasis lesion in my parasitology class last year, my first thought was "That's what the thing on my arm was!!!!" Cutaneous Leishmaniasis isn't a big deal.
The other physical problems I've had to cope with are intermittent but overwhelming fatigue and intermittent 5-Aleve joint pain.
None of this stuff is horribly disabling, but I wish I didn't have to live with it. I would LOVE to have a cheeseburger or a French Dip....
Okay, so I do have mental symptoms, just like a portion of soldiers after every conflict. They may be the source for alterations in my immune system (allergy), the fatigue and the joint pain. "The Irritable Heart" was an interesting treatment of this phenomenon. The pain and the symptoms are REAL. The cause may or may not have been mental.
If I were going to engage in some Persian Gulf studies, I would look at an epidemiological study comparing intelligence/memory ability with rates of depression and see if there was a correlation. My guess is there might well be.
I'd also do a genetic assay for mutant acetylcholinesterase and butyrlcholinesterase genes. This might shed light on the differing reactions to the Pyridostigmine Bromide pills we were ordered/compelled to take.
There are probably a variety of causes for the symptoms reported, and there is undeniably considerable variation in the severity, distribution and frequency of those symptoms. Some people have been disabled by Gulf War Syndrome, and since the policy is to compensate those disabled as a result of military service, we should do so. Some people have been affected, but are not compensably disabled (like me). Some people were not affected. That's the nature of the types of exposures and effects of neurological and immunological disorders.
Lisa
Bacteria RULE, Hominids drool |
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TFarnon
New Member
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2002 : 21:00:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
I really don't know. I wasn't in the Gulf until 1999. As far as GWS, there's so much argument, level-headed and hysterical on both sides of the issue. Chemical/biological weapons? Vaccines? Parasites? Take your pick.
BTW, if you're ever offered the Anthrax vaccine, run like hell. I was sick for days after each one, arm swollen like a football, and felt like someone had gone to town on my body with a baseball bat. Not recommended.
Lisa
The anthrax vaccine leaves you feeling lousy for a day or two? So does typhoid vaccine. So does yellow fever vaccine. So does cholera vaccine. So does plague vaccine, especially if you get it along with your flu shot when you already have a raging head cold and then spend the night outside in the snow on field maneuvers (fever-induced delirium made the night pass very interestingly and very quickly). I doubt that Anthrax vaccine is any worse than any other, really.
(another Lisa)
Bacteria RULE, Hominids drool |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2002 : 07:07:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
[The anthrax vaccine...
I've heard that while some people have reactions such as these to the anthrax vaccine, most show no effects.
From the CDC website:
quote:
Are there adverse reactions to the anthrax vaccine?
Mild local reactions occur in 30% of recipients and consist of slight tenderness and redness at the injection site. Severe local reactions are infrequent and consist of extensive swelling of the forearm in addition to the local reaction. Systemic reactions occur in fewer than 0.2% of recipients.
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/DocumentsApp/FAQAnthrax.asp#Q903
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Sum Ergo Cogito
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 01/30/2002 07:09:31 |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2002 : 14:19:47 [Permalink]
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TFarnon,
Out of curiosity, were you in Saudi? Being a winger most of my friends were in Shikesa (sp?) on Bahrain. Which is why I'm not sure that any of those I've kept in contact with have had any of these side effects. This has been expressed recently after talking to Darla. Had to see how her husband was taking the KC-130 going down since it was out of his old unit.
Update though, I've now been told Nick has asthma like symptoms where he can't breath properly. But again, his lungs were coated with the oily soot. Think they're saying he has enphysema (sp?).
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There is no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our world. It underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've known. Sagan |
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TFarnon
New Member
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2002 : 18:53:17 [Permalink]
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[quote]
TFarnon,
Out of curiosity, were you in Saudi? Being a winger most of my friends were in Shikesa (sp?) on Bahrain. Which is why I'm not sure that any of those I've kept in contact with have had any of these side effects. This has been expressed recently after talking to Darla. Had to see how her husband was taking the KC-130 going down since it was out of his old unit.
Update though, I've now been told Nick has asthma like symptoms where he can't breath properly. But again, his lungs were coated with the oily soot. Think they're saying he has enphysema (sp?).
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There is no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our world. It underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've known. Sagan
[/quote]
I was in Saudi. I was in Iraq. I was in Kuwait. Actually the order was: Saudi-Iraq-Kuwait-Iraq-Saudi. I didn't spend much time in buildings with real floors and windows and plumbing.
Bacteria RULE, Hominids drool |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2002 : 11:59:25 [Permalink]
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OK, would be considerably different from most of those I know then.
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...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
<i>No Sense of Obligation</i> by Matt Young |
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