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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
 Posted - 11/18/2004 : 08:49:34
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http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/books/11/18/arts.bible.translation.reut/index.html
Scholar tries to retranslte the hebrew texts into english to restore their original form, including the removal of non-hebrew concepts and words. Very interesting review.
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"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2004 : 13:52:25 [Permalink]
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| No matter how you translate it, it's the same nonsense. It began as nonsense. Further translations only try to rearrange the nonsense into something meaningful. "God is love." But there is too much nonsense there to be meaningful to anyone but the clergy who manipulate it. |
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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend
USA
220 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2004 : 15:39:13 [Permalink]
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I think it is just the Pentatuach not the whole Bible. The New Testament is written in Greek. Hebrew is rather rich in meaning and some english words just don't convey the meaning. That is price you pay in translation. The other price is to research the words when you read it.
People in power have a vested interest in using anything to remain in power. Fr. Gomez of Harvard University wrote about how the Catholic Church viewed the Bible as dangerous. Well dangerous in the hands of the common folk, of course. Who knows what they might think? Or if they would think?
The Borgia Popes liked getting there money and other tributes and used the Bible to "make an offer people couldn't refuse". This was a great scheme until a flatulent monk decided to post what was wrong with the church....on the church door. Ooops. He let the cat out of the bag on that one.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2004 : 18:14:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
No matter how you translate it, it's the same nonsense. It began as nonsense. Further translations only try to rearrange the nonsense into something meaningful. "God is love." But there is too much nonsense there to be meaningful to anyone but the clergy who manipulate it.
I wouldn't say it's nonsense! The early Genesis stories are fantastic mythologies on par with any Sumerian, Akkadian, Greek, or Roman tales. The Joseph or Moses stories are wonderful pieces of literature, even if not taken literally (and I don't).
The laws seen in Exodus, Leviticus, etc., provide insight into an ancient culture's society and customs. The histories-- Judges, I and II Samuel, etc.-- are useful for reconstructing the events of the Iron Age in Syria-Palestine.
No, I don't get anything "spiritual" from reading the Bible. But I don't think it's nonsense! Would that we had more from other Late Bronze/Iron Age societies in the Levant! |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2004 : 18:20:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Rubicon95
This was a great scheme until a flatulent monk decided to post what was wrong with the church....on the church door.
Uh, Rubicon, did you really mean flatulent? I mean, I know that some people thought that Luther was full of hot air, but...  |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2004 : 20:39:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
No matter how you translate it, it's the same nonsense. It began as nonsense. Further translations only try to rearrange the nonsense into something meaningful. "God is love." But there is too much nonsense there to be meaningful to anyone but the clergy who manipulate it.
I wouldn't say it's nonsense! The early Genesis stories are fantastic mythologies on par with any Sumerian, Akkadian, Greek, or Roman tales. The Joseph or Moses stories are wonderful pieces of literature, even if not taken literally (and I don't).
The laws seen in Exodus, Leviticus, etc., provide insight into an ancient culture's society and customs. The histories-- Judges, I and II Samuel, etc.-- are useful for reconstructing the events of the Iron Age in Syria-Palestine.
No, I don't get anything "spiritual" from reading the Bible. But I don't think it's nonsense! Would that we had more from other Late Bronze/Iron Age societies in the Levant!
That's what I've been trying to say for years, but never got it quite right. The Bible is a remarkable document, even with all of the jerking around it's had over the centuries.
I really must pick it up again.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2004 : 07:48:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
No matter how you translate it, it's the same nonsense. It began as nonsense. Further translations only try to rearrange the nonsense into something meaningful. "God is love." But there is too much nonsense there to be meaningful to anyone but the clergy who manipulate it.
Absolute drivel.
For anyone at all interested in an excellect Torah translation with scholarly commentary, this is an outstanding text. |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2004 : 07:56:39 [Permalink]
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I thought that the following example might be instructive.
quote:
Deuteronomy 32:8-9; KJV
When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
For the LORD'S portion [is] his people; Jacob [is] the lot of his inheritance.
Deuteronomy 32:8-9; Alter
When Elyon gave estates to nations,
when He split up the sons of man,
He set out the boundaries of peoples,
by the number of the sundry gods.
Yes, the Lord's portion is His people
Jacob the parcel of His estate
And the commentary ...
quote:
Elyon (the High One) is the sky god of the Canaanite pantheon, who appears to have been assimilated into biblical monotheism as an epithet for the God of Israel (see the comment on Genesis 14:19-20). The use of this designation here probably reflects the antiquity of the poem.
The Masoretic Text here reads lemispar beney yisra'el, "by the number of the sons of Israel." It is hard to make much sense of that reading, though traditional exegetes try to do that by noting that Israel/Jacob had seventy male descendants when he went down to Egypt and that there are, at least proverbially, seventy nations. This translation adopts the reading of the text found at Qumran (which seems close to the Hebrew text used by the Septuagint translators): lemispar beney 'elohim. This phrase, which appears to reflect a very early stage in the evolution of biblical monotheism, caused later transmitters of the text theological discomfort and was probably deliberately changed in the interests of piety. In the older world-picture, registered in a variety of biblical texts, God is surrounded by a celestial entourage of divine beings or lesser deities, beney 'elim or benet 'elohim, who are nevertheless subordinate to the supreme God. The Song of Moses assumes that God, in allotting portions of the earth to the various peoples, also allowed each people its own lesser deity. Compare Moses's remark about the astral deities in Deuteronomy 4:19.
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For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend
USA
220 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2004 : 11:34:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
quote:
Originally posted by Rubicon95
This was a great scheme until a flatulent monk decided to post what was wrong with the church....on the church door.
Uh, Rubicon, did you really mean flatulent? I mean, I know that some people thought that Luther was full of hot air, but...
yup he was a windbag in both ends. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2004 : 15:37:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Rubicon95
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
quote:
Originally posted by Rubicon95
This was a great scheme until a flatulent monk decided to post what was wrong with the church....on the church door.
Uh, Rubicon, did you really mean flatulent? I mean, I know that some people thought that Luther was full of hot air, but...
yup he was a windbag in both ends.
I thought you meant that he wasn't full of shit, he only smelled of it. |
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Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2004 : 21:34:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Rubicon95
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
quote:
Originally posted by Rubicon95
This was a great scheme until a flatulent monk decided to post what was wrong with the church....on the church door.
Uh, Rubicon, did you really mean flatulent? I mean, I know that some people thought that Luther was full of hot air, but...
yup he was a windbag in both ends.
LOL! I had no idea! 
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| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 11/20/2004 21:35:19 |
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