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tergiversant
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
 Posted - 09/05/2001 : 12:33:02
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Poll Question:
Suppose for the nonce that English language taboos fall into four broad categories: slurs, sex, potty, and blasphemy. Which of these taboos do you take most seriously?
Edited by - tergiversant on 09/06/2001 10:44:36
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| Results: |
| Groupwise slurs (e.g.) |
 [48%] |
60 votes |
| Sexuality (e.g.) |
[7%] |
9 votes |
| Elimination (e.g.) |
[0%] |
0 votes |
| Blasphemy (e.g.) |
[12%] |
15 votes |
| Any and all of the above. |
[4%] |
5 votes |
| None of the above -- language taboos are senseless. |
[29%] |
37 votes |
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Poll Status:
Locked »» |
Total Votes: 126 counted »» |
Last Vote:
06/28/2005 18:59:14 |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2001 : 13:57:27 [Permalink]
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I think it's not necessarily the word but how it's used.
 @tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Zandermann
Skeptic Friend
USA
431 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2001 : 17:13:37 [Permalink]
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I'd vote for the first choice, if it were not for the (unfortunate) use of the label "political incorrectness".
I think it's much more a matter of "insensitivity to one's fellow human beings"...and the usage of what have become "hate words" is the only language taboo that holds water in all situations.
Having said that, I will also admit that I do not use the words listed in any of the other 3 categories when I'm at work (in my school), as I feel that none of them are appropriate when I am modeling responsible behavior for my students. |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2001 : 18:40:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'd vote for the first choice, if it were not for the (unfortunate) use of the label "political incorrectness".
I did vote for the first choice, but I felt exactly the same way. "Political Incorrectness" is not the correct label for such vile words (when used in certain ways). It is representative of a corruptness in one's character that goes much deeper than simple "insensitivity".
The other choices are only an issue with me personally when used inappropriately (in public within earshot of strangers, excessive use, etc.)
------------
Hope springs eternal but there's no conviction
Actions mistaken for lip service paid
All this concern is the true contradiction
The world is insane...
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 09/05/2001 18:43:02 |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2001 : 18:44:54 [Permalink]
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However, I think I'll start using "Devil take thee!"
Has a nice ring to it... 
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Hope springs eternal but there's no conviction
Actions mistaken for lip service paid
All this concern is the true contradiction
The world is insane... |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2001 : 22:09:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Suppose for the nonce that English language taboos fall into four broad categories: political incorrectness, sexuality, elimination, and blasphemy. Which of these taboos do you take most seriously?
"Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione."
Most people IMO are way too sensitive.
I always say, women are shit. And I call my 'room mate' a Chinaman a lot. That's 3 of them. Well, god damn, whoops, guess that's #4.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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tergiversant
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2001 : 06:23:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
I'd vote for the first choice, if it were not for the (unfortunate) use of the label "political incorrectness".
I did vote for the first choice, but I felt exactly the same way. "Political Incorrectness" is not the correct label for such vile words (when used in certain ways). It is representative of a corruptness in one's character that goes much deeper than simple "insensitivity".
What is wrong with the label "political correctness?" It is intended to encapsulate words which are slurs against certain social groups, and thus seems perfectly appropriate.
Here follows an excerpt from http://www.xrefer.com/entry/596064
quote:
Among the first major works of reference to deal with the new terms political correctness and politically correct was The Oxford Companion to the English Language. (1992): 'The phrase is applied, especially pejoratively by conservative academics and journalists in the US, to the views and attitudes of those who publicly object to: (1) The use of terms that they consider overtly or covertly sexist (especially as used by men against women), racist (especially as used by whites against blacks), ableist (used against the physically or mentally impaired), ageist (used against any specific age group), heightist (especially as used against short people), etc.
Seems to fit perfectly the concept I was driving at of groupwise slurs. So what exactly do you guys have against the term? The leftist connotations?
"Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione."
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2001 : 07:38:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Suppose for the nonce that English language taboos fall into four broad categories: political incorrectness, sexuality, elimination, and blasphemy. Which of these taboos do you take most seriously?
"Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione."
I chose sexuality only based on whether children are present. As for political corrdct speech, it is the connotation in the way the word is used, not the word itself. At one time I, a caucasian male, was given permission to use the word "Nigger" in certain contexts. It is acceptable in certain contexts and is used BY THE COMMUNITY THAT FINDS IT OBJECTIONABLE. If you don't want everyone to use a certain word, don't use the word yourself.
The other question is that by limiting the speech, do we limit the idea of racism/sexism/religionism? I don't think the attitudes change. I prefer to hear the words, at least I know how the people who use those words percieve others.
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2001 : 08:57:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Seems to fit perfectly the concept I was driving at of groupwise slurs. So what exactly do you guys have against the term? The leftist connotations?
Connotations, yes, but not "leftist" ones. Your quoted item said it pretty well. It is used pejoratively.
Whatever it's technical meaning, the common usage seems to have become that when one labels something "politically correct", they are scoffing at the notion of political correctness itself, and implying that anyone offended by whatever they are labelling is being stupid and overly sensitive.
I would have no objection to one labelling as "politically incorrect" terms like "waitress", "midget", "stewardess", etc.
Words like "nigger" go beyond simple political incorrectness, IMO.
------------
Hope springs eternal but there's no conviction
Actions mistaken for lip service paid
All this concern is the true contradiction
The world is insane...
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 09/06/2001 09:59:48 |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2001 : 09:19:28 [Permalink]
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I think people are uncomfortable with political correctness because it has gone too far at times in my opinion. Trying to change the names of sports teams names did not help. A lack of consistency doesn't help either. Some people can use a term and another can't. I also have felt a bit funny about the hyphenated tag put onto certain groups...Irish-American, African-American. Notice that one of those denoted people from a country and the other people from an entire continent. I remember growing up and the big PC push was to go from calling people negro to black. What's the new term 20 years from now? To me what really matters is that whatever label is used it's non-malicious. People are just too sensitive over nothing sometimes. Constant complaining about the same old stuff when it's not really important just puts the issue into this constant background buzz. You start ignoring it. Like if someone you know personally complains all the time. Hands up everyone that learns to ignore this person
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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tergiversant
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2001 : 10:54:46 [Permalink]
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Okay, okay, I yield. "Uncle!" I say. 
The "political correctness" movement is perceived as having gone too far, and is hence spoken of pejoratively. Got it. 
I hope you all find the edited version acceptable. 
"Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione."
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Kristin
Skeptic Friend
Canada
84 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2001 : 11:32:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
The other question is that by limiting the speech, do we limit the idea of racism/sexism/religionism? I don't think the attitudes change. I prefer to hear the words, at least I know how the people who use those words percieve others.
Warning: naughty language below!
Funny about that. Some people just use the words because 'they're there' apparantly. To clarify: I had a friend, once (no, really!) We're both pretty volatile and got into tiffs fairly often. He is also generally an intelligent person. (when he's not mad.)
Now, when it comes to insults I have a pretty thick skin. Call me a bitch, a hoe, a skank, I won't care. Water off the back. He picked the one word that would piss me off and he called me a cunt. (Reasoning: I am being called a hole that is good for naught but fucking. Almost as bad as calling me stupid or a liar.)
I basically disconnected from him after that. He claims that it was not his intent to imply the above that when he used that slur. Did the intent matter to me? Nope. If you're going to act like a little kid who uses naughty words and doesn't understand the meaning connected with them, you're not someone I need to be connected with.
Also: I was not familiar with the term 'kike' until a couple of years ago. Similarly I was not familiar with modern anti-semitic sentiments. (WWII did not make much sense to me for this reason). Perhaps getting rid of the words will help break the cycle, eventually. Hey, I can dream can't I?
To Snake, I say Bad reptile.
Good judgement comes from experience: experience comes from bad judgement. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2001 : 11:45:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
The other question is that by limiting the speech, do we limit the idea of racism/sexism/religionism? I don't think the attitudes change.
Exactly.
Kil calls me vertically challenged, does that mean I think I'm short? Either way, I don't think so. 5'1'' is not short!
My parents were Jews but I am not in the least way offended by any names people could call me because of that. I am who I AM and I don't give a shit what others say because I will move on with or without whatever they say.
And don't we all have something about us or in our background that someone could pick on?Who is immune to attack? Geeses Krist! Deal with it.
The world is not Utopia and I don't think it ever will be.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2001 : 12:03:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
I was not familiar with the term 'kike' until a couple of years ago. Similarly I was not familiar with modern anti-semitic sentiments.
I was never familiar with it either, still am not sure what it means. I think being oblivious to slang helps, how can one be offended if they don't know?
quote:
Perhaps getting rid of the words will help break the cycle, eventually. Hey, I can dream can't I?
Dream on!
quote:
To Snake, I say Bad reptile.
You'll be sorry. Snakes are one of the most benifical creatures on the planet.
quote:
He claims that it was not his intent to imply the above that when he used that slur.
I will say this, you were right, for yourself, to discontinue your friendship with that guy IF it's not what you wanted. That's what I'm saying, things work out. Cause and effect.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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tergiversant
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2001 : 13:30:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
The other question is that by limiting the speech, do we limit the idea of racism/sexism/religionism? I don't think the attitudes change. I prefer to hear the words, at least I know how the people who use those words perceive others.
I was not familiar with the term 'kike' until a couple of years ago. Similarly I was not familiar with modern anti-Semitic sentiments. (WWII did not make much sense to me for this reason). Perhaps getting rid of the words will help break the cycle, eventually. Hey, I can dream can't I?
Sounds to me like some folk think language does not shape our thinking and others think it does. For the record, I side with the latter group. Language does indeed shape our thinking. This is evident in everyday life as well as scientific reasoning -- the concepts we are taught (via language) shape the paradigms in which we interpret data. Many linguists, psychologists, and philosophers of language have dedicated tomes to this very issue. Some prominent modern examples include the concept of physical laws and evolution which have greatly altered our thinking away from the framework of divine will or providence.
quote:
Now, when it comes to insults I have a pretty thick skin. Call me a bitch, a hoe, a skank, I won't care. Water off the back. He picked the one word that would piss me off and he called me a cunt. (Reasoning: I am being called a hole that is good for naught but fucking. Almost as bad as calling me stupid or a liar.)
You put such negative spin on such a positive concept. When I think of “cunt” I think of such phrases as “the most beautiful sight on Earth,” “that which is most desirable,” “that which gives meaning to life,” or even “summum bonnum,” but then perhaps I'm obsessed.
"Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione."
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2001 : 13:49:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
quote:
The other question is that by limiting the speech, do we limit the idea of racism/sexism/religionism? I don't think the attitudes change. I prefer to hear the words, at least I know how the people who use those words perceive others.
I was not familiar with the term 'kike' until a couple of years ago. Similarly I was not familiar with modern anti-Semitic sentiments. (WWII did not make much sense to me for this reason). Perhaps getting rid of the words will help break the cycle, eventually. Hey, I can dream can't I?
Sounds to me like some folk think language does not shape our thinking and others think it does. For the record, I side with the latter group. Language does indeed shape our thinking. This is evident in everyday life as well as scientific reasoning -- the concepts we are taught (via language) shape the paradigms in which we interpret data. Many linguists, psychologists, and philosophers of language have dedicated tomes to this very issue. Some prominent modern examples include the concept of physical laws and evolution which have greatly altered our thinking away from the framework of divine will or providence.
Sorry, I've seen people who hid their racism by not "saying" the words in public. They still acted as a racist. My point is that squelching the speech won't fix the problem. Fighting speech with differing speech will. Forbidding the usage of words will not change the attitudes behind them. Discussion at length about the attitudes and behaviors that one finds objectionable will work much better. As an example, if the KKK were forbidden to use the word nigger, would it change the members beliefs about minorities? I don't believe that it will. Of course, I'm talking about the free speech of adults here, not how we teach our children. That is an entirely different matter and should be approached differently based on the age and maturity of the child.
quote:
quote:
Now, when it comes to insults I have a pretty thick skin. Call me a bitch, a hoe, a skank, I won't care. Water off the back. He picked the one word that would piss me off and he called me a cunt. (Reasoning: I am being called a hole that is good for naught but fucking. Almost as bad as calling me stupid or a liar.)
You put such negative spin on such a positive concept. When I think of “cunt” I think of such phrases as “the most beautiful sight on Earth,” “that which is most desirable,” “that which gives meaning to life,” or even “summum bonnum,” but then perhaps I'm obsessed.
"Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione."
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Topic Locked
