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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
 Posted - 05/03/2001 : 12:31:41
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I have often wondered why the perpetrators of Christianity didn't do a better job at covering their tracks. It's a though they had some strange Roman conqueror sense of humor.
Take the fact that all Christian prayers end with the word Amen. We are told that this is Latin for "so be it" or, "it is so." This is very much like being told upon a vacation to Hawaii that the word "haole" means "stranger." No way Jose. Amen, or as we now spell it Amun, was one of the chief Egyptian gods. After Julius Caesar and Cleopatra all that was Egyptian became fashionable in Rome. (Same trend happened in the 1800's in England and France) It became trendy to say "Amen wills it" whenever you wanted to make a point. The really cool, hip, patricians would just say "Amen." Groovy, Far out, Right on, Amen.
Then there is Easter. Easter (sometimes Ishtar) was the goddess of the dawn. We know her better as Venus. Her son/consort, Tammuz (Adonis) is half man, half god. He dies, is murdered, and she, through her magic, restores him to life after he is placed in her lap. I'm sure you've seen pictures of that scene being replayed. Easters' triumph over death has always in the "pagan" world been celebrated at the first dawn (the direction EAST is where the sun raises on that day) after the first full moon of spring. This is why the date of the Christian Easter isn't attached to the Jewish Passover celebration as common sense would dictate.
And don't get me started on the title "Christ." Christ was the name of a god who was worshiped by a completely different religion that was very popular in Rome and Greece. (Try doing a search for Apollonius of Tyana and see the interesting facts you will get) Christian tradition would have you believe that the Apostles referred to Jesus as Christ (Who{m} do you say that I am?). This is patently absurd. Jesus, a Rabbi, would have punched their lights out for such an accusation.
The Christians who were persecuted by Nero, in all likelihood, never would have heard of Jesus. The followers of Jesus would have only been a minor sect of Jews at this time.
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2001 : 12:56:35 [Permalink]
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In following your suggestion, John Paul, I did a search on Apollonius. One of the sites had this interesting quote:
quote:
We shall believe in the single Deity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, under the concept of equal majesty and of the Holy Trinity.We command that those persons who follow this rule shall embrace the name of Catholic Christians. The rest, however, whom We adjudge demented and insane, shall sustain the infamy of heretical dogmas, their meeting places shall not receive the name of churches, and they shall be smitten first by divine vengeance and secondly by the retribution of Our own initiative, which We shall assume in accordance with the divine judgement."
Roman Emperor Theodosius, The Theodosian Laws, 380 CE, quoted on pp.27-28 of Helen Ellerbe's The Dark Side of Christian History, published in 1995
So basically, join us or die. Nice guy. Guess that's not exactly news though...
[Hee hee! Thanks @tomic, for the picture!  ]
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 05/03/2001 12:57:34 |
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sega
Skeptic Friend
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2001 : 14:49:45 [Permalink]
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I don't understand why you guys all seem to take glee in pointing out errors in the bible and pointing to pagan traditions that have been coopted by Christianity. Medeival cathedrals are covered with depictions of the Zodiac and green men and so on. Christianity became as powerful as it did because it could co opt long held Pagan rituals or beleifs.
As for the bible, it is a story compiled from the writings of many men, in many different times. You try to edit a document such as that, it aint gonna work. You cannot prove god exists, can't prove he does not exist and all religion relies on blind faith, which defies reason, hence why even attempt to debunk it!
A true beleiver will beleive in the face of anything. Hell, Israel grew out of the holocaust, and they still beleived in their god after that.
You guys are tiltin at windmills. 
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2001 : 14:55:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
why even attempt to debunk it!
Same reason you responded to this thread? Cause it's fun! 
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2001 : 15:00:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
A true beleiver will beleive in the face of anything. Hell, Israel grew out of the holocaust, and they still beleived in their god after that.
You guys are tiltin at windmills.
By the way, I was a 'True Believer' once, so don't give up hope so easily that you can't convince someone that they are wrong in their belief.
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2001 : 15:56:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
I don't understand why you guys all seem to take glee in pointing out errors in the bible and pointing to pagan traditions that have been coopted by Christianity.
You guys are tiltin at windmills.
It is not that Christianity co opted some pagan myths. It is entirely pagan myths.
It is also one of the most destructive forces in the history of mankind.
I take pot shot at it because I believe it to be evil.
See if you can find a copy of Bertrand Russell's Why I am Not A Christianfor further explaination
Edited by - slater on 05/03/2001 15:57:20 |
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sega
Skeptic Friend
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2001 : 19:14:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
I take pot shot at it because I believe it to be evil.
Edited by - slater on 05/03/2001 15:57:20
Mankind is evil in general, so it is only a natural outgrowth of large human institutions to become evil. One could make the statement that Evil is only an outgrowth of abstract thinking combined with competition for resources. Animals are not evil because they are (at this point anyway) incapable of abstract thought, driven solely by instinct, and do not posess thumbs.
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2001 : 21:57:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Mankind is evil in general,
Although I am young, I've been young for a very, very, long time. Been to Europe, Asia, South Pacific and one end to the other top to bottom around the US of A.
I have met thousands & thousands of people and the over whelming majority of them were very nice indeed.
You should get out more.
quote:
Animals are not evil because they are (at this point anyway) incapable of abstract thought, driven solely by instinct, and do not posess thumbs.
They have always spoken well of you. |
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sega
Skeptic Friend
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2001 : 13:54:01 [Permalink]
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I get out plenty, thank you. I just havn't got my rose colored glasses on all the time. I guess I'm not a people person. Besides, I'm sure you aren't spending much time in the darker spots around the world.
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Dog_Ed
Skeptic Friend
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2001 : 05:03:56 [Permalink]
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Evil has always been a knotty (naughty?) problem for deists. In my view, somewhat extistential, mankind is neither intrinsically evil nor good. Evil occurs when a sentient being--read "one who knows better"--inflicts needless suffering on another. I personally try not to do that. Can animals be evil? Sure. I read of a pair of chimps who beat a third chimp to death as part of a struggle for dominance in their common social group--strikingly similar to human murder. I'm with Slater; I think humans are for the most part well-intentioned.
However, the religious meme--using the term 'meme' loosely, as I'm very skeptical of some of the claims of the proponents of mimetics--values belief over logic, and received wisdom over evidence, doesn't it? Belief in a loving God requires that believers somehow explain the existence of human suffering. Christians do that by asserting that God uses evil in order to train mankind toward goodness. The Spanish Inquisition ("Ha! No one expects...the Spanish Inquisition!"--Monty Python) could torture people in the name of God because it was clear that God Himself uses the suffering of man as a divine (!) tool.
Isn't that really why we tilt at windmills? Because sometimes ya gotta do something, and if the windmill is all that's available then ya gotta give it a whack?
"Even Einstein put his foot in it sometimes" |
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