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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
 Posted - 12/02/2004 : 09:42:07
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This has Bush thwarting implications!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4061477.stm
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"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2004 : 09:51:28 [Permalink]
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| The feminist claims aside, that is fabulous! But I wonder; wouldn't the egg have only half of the genetic material necessary for a human to be? How would those stem cells be? |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2004 : 10:03:55 [Permalink]
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Nah the stem cells dont need that stuff, they are 'blanks' essentially, like a universal blood type..
Edit: oh and no these are for research only, they cant grow into humans. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
| Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 12/02/2004 10:04:43 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2004 : 11:45:03 [Permalink]
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Very interesting indeed, but herein lies the rub:
quote:
The process, described in New Scientist, uses an enzyme found in sperm to prompt the egg to divide.
The fact that they have found a biological trigger to prompt the egg to divide is fabulous.
And:
quote:
The researchers called the enzyme "the spark of life".
I'd be willing to bet that the anti-stem cell blathers will be all over this as soon as it is put to use and probably well before. Our gutless leaders will wear their knees out bowing before them.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2004 : 12:46:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Nah the stem cells dont need that stuff, they are 'blanks' essentially, like a universal blood type..
Edit: oh and no these are for research only, they cant grow into humans.
Gotcha. I know they've no possibility to grow into a full human, I was wondering about the stem cells |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Plyss
Skeptic Friend
Netherlands
231 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2004 : 15:29:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Very interesting indeed, but herein lies the rub:
[quote]The process, described in New Scientist, uses an enzyme found in sperm to prompt the egg to divide.
The fact that they have found a biological trigger to prompt the egg to divide is fabulous.
So what would happen if you took the gene and placed it in a bacterium behind a powerful promotor region, harvested the geneproduct and applied that to the egg cells? ;)
And what if one would make minor modifications to the primary sequence? Interesting questions, i'd love to see an ethical board make recommendations on this.
-edited to add:-
This is fascinating on so many levels. Because a phospholipid modifying enzyme seems to be involved in regulating cell division this could open up a whole new field of proteome and genome regulation.
Also, it is fairly close to my own research. I'm so looking forward to the article on this subject.
-edited to add:-
Awww, apparently the phospolipase works on specific phosphotidyl-inositol compounds that then function as signalling molecules for other processes.
It would have been so totally awesome if it worked by altering the physical properties of the lipid bilayer. Ahem. [/membrane-biochemistry nerd mode]
Also, apparently recombinant enzymes can fulfil the same function (at least in mice anyway, so probably in humans too). I'd like to see any fundy claim that that would qualify as human life |
Miss Tick sniffed. 'You could say this piece of advice is pricesless', she said. 'Are you listening?'
'Yes' said Tiffany.
'Good now...If you trust in yourself.."
'Yes..?'
'..and believe in your dreams...'
'yes?'
'...and follow your star..' Miss Tick went on.
'Yes?'
'You'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy. Goodbye.' |
| Edited by - Plyss on 12/03/2004 05:35:13 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2004 : 06:07:04 [Permalink]
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| Hey a blob of blank cells is human life no matter how small. Hopefully we'll be able develop stem cells from non-human eggs, and bypass that whole problem. Then again Im talking out my ass, plyss do you think thats possible? |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Plyss
Skeptic Friend
Netherlands
231 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2004 : 06:23:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Hey a blob of blank cells is human life no matter how small. Hopefully we'll be able develop stem cells from non-human eggs, and bypass that whole problem. Then again Im talking out my ass, plyss do you think thats possible?
A blob of blank cells is only human life in the same sense that a skin-flake or a few bloodcells are human life. Actually less because the cells only contain 23 chromosomes instead of 46. This is also one reason why i have some doubts on the usefulness of this approach. That being said, i'd love to be proved wrong on this.
As for non-human eggs, i sincerely doubt it's possible to do anything worthwhile with it in the foreseeable future because their genetic program is quite likely incompatible with ours. Stemcells from other organisms likely have subtly different signalling factors they respond to, resulting in deviations in development.
Also, when placed in the body foreign cells would immediately generate an immune response. Of course it's possible to surpress this but that might not be in the best interest of the patient.
It may be possible in isolated cases to treat people in such a way, but i'm not overly familiar with developmental biology and immunology.
These are just some thoughts from the top of my head though, i haven't given "xeno-stemcell treatment" (i'll just call it that for now) much thought. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2004 : 01:11:29 [Permalink]
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There was an article about an expirimental stem-cell treatment in New Scientist a couple months ago, and it claimed that one of the effects of the stem calls was to circumvent the immune response to reject foreign tissue.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2004 : 12:58:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
There was an article about an expirimental stem-cell treatment in New Scientist a couple months ago, and it claimed that one of the effects of the stem calls was to circumvent the immune response to reject foreign tissue.
Yes, but those stem-cells came from homo sapien sapien. (Wasn't it?) |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
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Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
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| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 12/08/2004 12:59:28 |
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Plyss
Skeptic Friend
Netherlands
231 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2004 : 08:42:41 [Permalink]
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Apparently the proper term for the use of non-human stem cells in therapeutic applications is refered to as "interspecies somatic cell nuclear transfer" (or interspecies SCNT).
This article (pdf warning) has some nice information on it. I just wish i was more familiar with biology in general and medical biology, developmental biology and immunology in particular.
The author suggests this process (interspecies SCNT) could be tricky because of incompatibility between the donor and acceptor's mitochondria.
Briefly, some of the donors mitochondria remain present after transfection of the stem cell with the acceptors genetic material and some of these mitocondrial proteins become exposed to the acceptors immune system, causing an immune response. |
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