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 Hovind Responds to My Offer
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tkster
Skeptic Friend

USA
193 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2004 :  19:04:45  Show Profile Send tkster a Private Message
This was hilarious. First my offer:

quote:
Creationists are an interesting group of people. Many of them think that offering money to prove what they call "evolution" which no biologist would agree to somehow disproves this. They make bold claims to everyone and yet in debates are crushed. It is almost amazing that this ignorance continues, however, one Creationist in particular - who I won't name - said that if evolutionists were so sure that evolution was false they should offer money to Creationists to disprove it. I thought that was a great idea, and so that is what I've done.

However, the Creationist definition of evolution is not evolution. Evolution is a change in gene frequencies in a population over a period of time and according to evolution all plants and animals are related to each other. So I spent a great deal of time thinking what three things must be falsified in order for evolution to be false. This is the first three that came to mind, and these three are required. In order to collect the money you must disprove all three and also follow the guidelines listed afterwards:

1. You must prove that natural selection is false and doesn't work. This is considered by evolutionists to be the design part of evolution making sure that successful traits survive.
2. You must prove that traits cannot be inherited. If traits can't be inherited, this would prevent natural selection from working properly by ensuring the successful traits survive.
3. You must prove that beneficial mutations that add genetic information don't exist (like the Nylon bug, CD4 gene, etc). Mutations are considered to be the "chance" aspect of evolution that lead to a change by natural selection ensuring the successful ones survive.

You must disprove all three in order to receive a million dollars. The guidelines to which you submit must be as follows:

1. You must present scientific evidence. Science is the study of the natural world, no supernatural evidence required will work.
2. You must submit current up to date, scientific peer reviewed information. Saying "Bob says ..." is not going to cut it, if the science community doesn't see it the way "Bob" does.
3. There is a board of twelve evolutionists to which you must submit to. The evolutionists will review your information and if they all agree, and they must all agree, that you have presented good, scientific information disproving the three listed, with tk's approval you will win the million dollars.

This offer is to prove that evolution - a change in gene frequencies in a population over a period of time - is scientifically accurate. While Creationists believe a two thousand year old book that says the Earth is flat, they have yet to present any evidence that combats what evolution really is. Evolution says nothing about the origin of the universe or the origin of life. Can Creationists present any evidence to disprove what evolution really is? Stay tuned.


Hovind's response:

quote:
Dr. Hovind accused me of "shifting the burden" of proof, saying that me offering money to disprove evolution is shifting the burden of proof. He said that I need to prove it. However, this is a quote from Hovind's website:

"If you are convinced that evolution is an indisputable fact, may I suggest that you offer $250,000 for any empirical or historical evidence against the general theory of evolution."
(Source: http://www.drdino.com/Ministry/250k/index.jsp as of 12/23/05)

This is exactly what I did, except that I am offering a million dollars and now he is accusing me of shifting the burden of proof. Dr. Hovind asks for this and then gets upset. Some other hilarious statements on his radio program of 12.23.2005:

Jonathan Sampson (Reading My Million Dollar Offer): He says "evolution is a change in gene frequencies in a population over a period of time and according to evolution all plants and animals are related to each other" (This statement can be found above).
Dr. Hovind: He has no idea what evolution is, that is not evolution!

Dr. Hovind totally shows that actually he has no idea what evolution is! This is what the theory of evolution teaches, it has nothing to do with the origin of the universe or origin of life. Now his Ad Hominem attack:

Jonathan Sampson: [tk] was a former Creationist that is an evolutionist now because of bad design or something.
Dr. Hovind: No we know why he's an evolutionist now; he wants to look at pornography!
Jonathan Sampson: Yeah, and he's in college too!

Along with a lot of Ad Hominem attacks (he accused me of lying with no proof) and argument's from ignorance (he nor Jonathan knew much about the Nylon bug) along with his inability to show that he knows what evolution is, the program was absolutely hilarious!


That was hilarious. Anyway, I better obey Hovind and go watch some porn!

tk

tomk80
SFN Regular

Netherlands
1278 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2004 :  19:08:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit tomk80's Homepage Send tomk80 a Private Message
Is there a way to listen the whole show?
His respons is hilarious, ever since the 'river'-debates I've thought Hovind should get his own comedy show.

Tom

`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll-
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tkster
Skeptic Friend

USA
193 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2004 :  19:27:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send tkster a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by tomk80

Is there a way to listen the whole show?
His respons is hilarious, ever since the 'river'-debates I've thought Hovind should get his own comedy show.



He used to have the latest shows for download, but now he hasn't updated since River has been on. I'd bet that has a lot to do with it. Now he gets refuted right and left and won't upload his most recent shows.

tk
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Espritch
Skeptic Friend

USA
284 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2004 :  21:17:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Espritch's Homepage Send Espritch a Private Message
Ummm...do you have a million dollars to offer? If not, you aren't being entirely honest in offering the challenge.

I would also note, that you really shouldn't require him to disprove all three items. Each of these assumptions is crucial to evolution and if even one is flawed the whole theory is in real trouble. In science, the whole structure must be solid. If not, then the theory is incomplete, flawed, or just plain wrong.

Unlike religion, science requires rigor. In science, a half truth is no kind of truth at all.
Edited by - Espritch on 12/23/2004 21:21:42
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2004 :  22:31:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
Whew, I'm glad I'm not alone anymore. tkster revealed that it was satire on Hovind's million dollar offer, so the entire thing is just a joke. I did the same thing you did, thought it was serious. And it is even ironic too. You could call it tkster's satire on himself, as before he had a million dollar challenge to prove evolution.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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tomk80
SFN Regular

Netherlands
1278 Posts

Posted - 12/24/2004 :  06:26:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit tomk80's Homepage Send tomk80 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by tkster

quote:
Originally posted by tomk80

Is there a way to listen the whole show?
His respons is hilarious, ever since the 'river'-debates I've thought Hovind should get his own comedy show.



He used to have the latest shows for download, but now he hasn't updated since River has been on. I'd bet that has a lot to do with it. Now he gets refuted right and left and won't upload his most recent shows.

tk


Well, then the last thing we have to do to make the victory complete is make sure that in every seminar there are a few people like River who can debate him and make his seminar-life a living hell.

Tom

`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll-
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