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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
 Posted - 02/08/2005 : 16:04:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
quote:
Originally posted by jimrobb
A postscript. I maintain a blog for skeptics, like myself, who are nevertheless searching for a reasonable spiritually. And perhaps have found one. It's called www.SkepticsClub.com. Tonight I've posted my first real attempt to tackle the Tsunami catastrophe. It's the top post. Check it out, you who are interested.
From the blog:quote:
So the Young Master states two things emphatically. First, atrocities and natural disasters are not sent to punish wicked people.
Oh really? Here are some quotes from Jesus according to Matthew and interpretations from the Skeptic's Annotated Bible.The first half I went to the passages, the second half are as the annotated site describes the passages.quote:
Matthew
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (10:34-36) Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." Yet elsewhere in the New Testament Jesus is said to bring peace.
Jehovah's Witnesses use these verses to justify forcing members to disfellowship (shun) their own family.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
# Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37
# God will come when people least expect him and then he'll "cut them asunder." And "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 24:50-51
# The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30
# Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41
# Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46
There's so much in the Annotated Bible it's hard to pick just a few passages.
If you have a text that says anything and everything it's easy to pick a passage for any purpose. But you aren't interpreting quotes from the Bible, you are finding quotes that make the Bible what your wishful thinking makes it.
Why don't you fellas learn Hebrew? Instead of other versions of the bible. Is it a possiblity in peoples haste to write a different version they made a mistake in the new version? I believe in the KJV and I especially don't believe in a version written by any type of god hater or evolutionist!
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will reclaim Earth as His rightful planet any day now! When you see the third temple built where Islams Dome of the Rock sits now. Know that the end is near. That is if we get to see it and it doesn't mean that Christ will have already set up His kingdom here! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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| Edited by - verlch on 02/08/2005 16:46:43 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 16:04:34 [Permalink]
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The reason I use the SAB is they have cataloged and categorized the verses. If you want to find a number of passages where the science is bad, they have it. If you want to find the contradiction to a 'mined quote' the SAB is the best place to look. If you want to find all the atrocities attributed to 'God's' instructions or commands they have that. You can discount the information in the SAB, but don't think I haven't read the actual verses or that I failed to look at the context of them.
I have read those actual (translated verses). I have read most of the Bible. I am appalled at how stupid it is. I'm appalled at how horrible some stuff is. The Sodom and Gomorrah story for example is disgusting. Lot would rather send his 2 'virgin' daughters out to be gang raped by a crowd than give up the male stranger. Excuse me? Lot's wife is given the death penalty for some minor disobedience. Lot has incestual relations with those daughters and the account is one of blaming the daughters. Yah right. God tells his preferred people to kill every man woman and child of the Amorites. I did not take those verses out of context.
I wouldn't expect you to like the SAB, Rub, because the truth is the Bible doesn't say what Christians believe or want it to say. There is no 'God is Love' crap in there. There's a lot of nonsense, a lot of "revenge to those who don't believe what I believe", and a lot of excuses for bad behavior like land grabs in historical times.
Edited to add, I have no issue with anything Darwin said or believed. The origin of species isn't a Bible. The theory of evolution is an accumulation of years of research and mountains of evidence. And the theory is continually being refined. That's how science works. Any individual scientist or researcher can say anything they want. That doesn't make what is said relevant to any theory. If the evidence is there, the evidence supports the theory, not the person who found the evidence. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 02/08/2005 16:11:15 |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 17:14:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Why don't you fellas learn Hebrew?
I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Cuneiformist has some knowledge of Hebrew... |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 17:36:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will reclaim Earth as His rightful planet any day now!
Yeah, Christians have been saying that for, what, going on 2000 years now?  |
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 02/08/2005 17:36:27 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 18:14:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Why don't you fellas learn Hebrew? Instead of other versions of the bible. Is it a possiblity in peoples haste to write a different version they made a mistake in the new version? I believe in the KJV...
The Skeptic's Annotated Bible uses the text of the KJV. And the KJV wasn't written in Hebrew. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2005 : 02:51:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Rubicon95
Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37
KJV reads
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=mt+24&version=nkj&showtools=0
SAB focuses and highlights v37 -
Where does it read that Jesus has no issue with drowning people? what about v38 which explains 37?
Maybe there was a hidden meaning? If that is the case, then why not like Strongs Concordance or Biblical Commentaries cross refernce other parts of scriptures to back it up.
Or maybe the commentary on the SAB was just lazy, dishonest. And you are doing a disservice to yourself and your position by using it.
Thank you! I agree that this is an error.
We all make mistakes but you accused SAB of being dishonest and now lazy.
Do the SAB claim to be inerrant? What was the reply when you pointed out this error to them(him?)?
The SAB is useful as beskeptigal wrote, to find dubious parts of the KJV bible. Some of the objections ar not especially strong and some are not even valid, but many of them are. Anyway you should never use someones argument without checking it first.
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2005 : 04:09:39 [Permalink]
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It is said that only individuals have honor; great governments have none.
And thus it has been proven yet again. quote:
States Failing to Pay Tsunami Pledges
by John Vidal
Almost two-thirds of the money promised by governments to help the millions of people affected by the Indian Ocean tsunami has not yet been received by the UN, confirming the fear that many countries would try to wriggle out of their commitments.
Margareta Wahlstrom, the secretary general Kofi Annan's special envoy, said the UN's appeal for an urgent $977m (£525m) to fund the first six months of emergency relief work had been met mostly by written commitments, and only $360m had so far been received.
I wonder how much the Republican cheapskates running our own government have actually sent.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend
USA
220 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2005 : 07:11:18 [Permalink]
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Nope I don't claim the SAB is inerrant. Just the commentary was dishonest and yes now I am adding lazy. Maybe I should be more specific. The commentary on that line V37 was dishonest and now lazy.
In one of the posts, I used a quote from Darwin's Origin of the Species.
"Thus the weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man."
Darwin from Origin of the Species.
My commentary/interpertation/viewpoint was that Darwin is for Eugenics. Heck why not say that he would have no compunction or regret in killing off the lame. That's what some cattleman do.
Would I be wrong or dishonest in posing that commentary?
My opinion, I would be dishonest. See my point. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2005 : 08:06:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Rubicon95
My commentary/interpertation/viewpoint was that Darwin is for Eugenics. Heck why not say that he would have no compunction or regret in killing off the lame. That's what some cattleman do.
Would I be wrong or dishonest in posing that commentary?
Darwin was a racist, to some extent. He may even have been pro-eugenics. The important thing, though, is that his racism is completely irrelevant to the theory he was proposing. The comment you quoted - and others - don't take anything away from his real message.
Jesus, on the other hand, allegedly embodied love and compassion. Telling people matter-of-factly that many of them were going to die upon His return is rather uncompassionate and uncaring. At the very least, Jesus is sending mixed messages. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2005 : 14:06:43 [Permalink]
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Rubicon, the SAB has hundreds of examples of contradictions, cruelty and bad science in the Bible. Why do you ignore the obvious and resort to ad hominems against Darwin?
Defend a few of the inconsistencies, Abel's blood sacrifice being better than Cain's crop offering; and some of the cruelty, killing baby Amonites and their animals as well; and the bad science, the bizarre leprosy cure which obviously wasn't.
The Bible does not say the things the Christian Church claims it says. If people were true Bible believers they would admit their God was cruel, vengeful, jealous, and bloodthirsty. If you choose to believe, at least believe what the Bible says, not how church leaders have characterized what it says. Face it, did you get your religion from church or from the Bible? You may not like how the SAB interprets the Book, but it's a much more honest interpretation than you'll hear in any church.
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