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questionit
New Member
21 Posts |
 Posted - 01/10/2005 : 19:38:20 [Permalink]
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Filthy,
You rock! I was about to take on Verlch but you andled it just fine. So few right-wingers realize the dangers of having religion and government fuse. But all they need to do is look at what's happened every time in the past when the two did become one. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 20:03:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by questionit
Filthy,
You rock! I was about to take on Verlch but you andled it just fine. So few right-wingers realize the dangers of having religion and government fuse. But all they need to do is look at what's happened every time in the past when the two did become one.
De nada, Question. Most of us here have been dealing with V for quite some time. He is consistant only in his tunnel vision. This, narrow as it is, often gets him into inconsistancies that he can't resolve. Thus, he ignores them and casts forth yet more of the same. And never backs up his assertions with other than loopy websites that a simple investigation will show to be as unsupported as is he, himself.
But unfortunatly, this mindset is all too common. There are far too many people who refuse to think and will follow the loudest voice; possibly believing that if it's loud and broadcast everywhere, it must be right.
We are indeed, a unique species. Sometimes verlch makes me wonder if that's a good thing.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2005 : 08:57:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Yeah in California they passed a law last week making it illegal for a teacher or anyone working at a school to notify a parent that a young 12-18 year old girl seeks an abortion. This same girl cannot go to a tanning bed, get a tattoo, buy smokes, or drink. Yet she can kill her baby and her parents don't need to know about it!
Sounds like a good idea. I believe that here in Sweden, abortion is something private, and costfree. I can imagine being young and accidentally pregnant is difficult enough - why make it harder?
quote:
What next, do Fascist Liberals want to Abort me and use my body for Stem Cell Research?
Since you are already fully aware that there are no such things as fascist liberals, and since you also know perfectly well that noone said they were to abort you, I wont point out how utterly and bizarrely wrong you are.
quote:
In the name of Natural Science?
Are you suggesting some form of unnatural science should be pursued?
quote:
Either Kill or be Killed? Survival of the Stupidest?
Certainly not, I'm more on the other side of that spectrum I suppose, since I see myself as somewhat of a socialliberal.
quote:
Kill what God gave you because we believe God doesn't exist so kill your baby and deal with it on Judgement day? No thanks. I'm not going to let somebody else do my thinking for me!
That's the right spirit. Don't let a priest tell you what to think, or an old book full of myths! Think for yourself, that's an excellent idea! |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2005 : 10:04:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Well, it looks like Bush pulled it off in spite of the constitution. And he has by-passed a limp and pathetic Congress in the doing of it, as well. quote:
Partly as a result, in 2003, groups dubbed "faith-based" received $1.17 billion in grants from federal agencies, according to documents provided by the White House to The Associated Press. That was about 8 percent of the $14.5 billion spent on social programs that qualify for faith-based grants in five federal departments.
That's not enough, said Jim Towey, director of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives. An additional $40 billion in federal money is given out by state governments, he said, and many states do not realize that federal rules now allow them to fund these organizations.
"We're on the sunrise side of the mountain," he said.
And now for the real question. How many non-Christian religious services got money?
Bush pushed an illegal agenda and put a fellow phundie phobe in charge of it.
My bet is not fucking much. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2005 : 10:35:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
I had to make up my mind to believe in God, and nobody on earth forced me too.
So you're saying that your belief in God was not created? Then it must have evolved.
- TW |
- TW
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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend
USA
220 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2005 : 10:40:48 [Permalink]
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I once thought that it was great that the Fed would make funds available to faith based organizations. Giving faith based recovery groups aid would help them. However, it is a trojan horse. There are going to be strings attached.
Gov't involvement in religion is scary. What would be next? A list of which religion is valid and which is not? China has that. They do have a freedom of religion. The gov't provides the choices.
BTW Non/quasi secular Groups like AA, SA, NA, don't want federal funds or any funds from any outside source.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2005 : 19:41:07 [Permalink]
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| Dangit, I heard a few days ago, but forget where, that some groups which don't consider themselves to be "faith based" have been included in that billion given to "faith-based" groups. Like the Red Cross. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2005 : 19:50:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Dangit, I heard a few days ago, but forget where, that some groups which don't consider themselves to be "faith based" have been included in that billion given to "faith-based" groups. Like the Red Cross.
True indeed: quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Partly as a result, in 2003, groups dubbed "faith-based" received $1.17 billion in grants from federal agencies, according to documents provided by the White House to The Associated Press. That was about 8 percent of the $14.5 billion spent on social programs that qualify for faith-based grants in five federal departments.
But the foot is in the door, is it not?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2005 : 02:19:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tw101356
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
I had to make up my mind to believe in God, and nobody on earth forced me too.
So you're saying that your belief in God was not created? Then it must have evolved.
- TW
I had to choose between evolution from monkies or coming from the hand of God. Without any comments from family or friends came to believe in God and I Give my heart to Him. I choose His side, the side of good and not evil. |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2005 : 02:44:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
Originally posted by tw101356
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
I had to make up my mind to believe in God, and nobody on earth forced me too.
So you're saying that your belief in God was not created? Then it must have evolved.
- TW
I had to choose between evolution from monkies or coming from the hand of God. Without any comments from family or friends came to believe in God and I Give my heart to Him. I choose His side, the side of good and not evil.
And I myself, decided that reason and logic made a lot more sense than mumbo-jumbo, and good and evil had nothing to do with it.
Tell me verlch, which monkey did you not evolve from?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2005 : 03:55:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
Originally posted by tw101356
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
I had to make up my mind to believe in God, and nobody on earth forced me too.
So you're saying that your belief in God was not created? Then it must have evolved.
- TW
I had to choose between evolution from monkies or coming from the hand of God. Without any comments from family or friends came to believe in God and I Give my heart to Him. I choose His side, the side of good and not evil.
So what you're actually saying is that you chose to believe something because you wanted it to be true. So, the question I must ask is: Did your choice affect reality in such a way that your belief became the truth? |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2005 : 12:09:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
Originally posted by tw101356
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
I had to make up my mind to believe in God, and nobody on earth forced me too.
So you're saying that your belief in God was not created? Then it must have evolved.
- TW
I had to choose between evolution from monkies or coming from the hand of God. Without any comments from family or friends came to believe in God and I Give my heart to Him. I choose His side, the side of good and not evil.
And I myself, decided that reason and logic made a lot more sense than mumbo-jumbo, and good and evil had nothing to do with it.
Tell me verlch, which monkey did you not evolve from?
I'll have nothing to do with your unproven theory. You talk about mumbo jumbo than look no further than the "Book of Darwin". The origin of species is packed full of nonsense! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2005 : 12:53:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
I had to choose between evolution from monkies or coming from the hand of God.
Listen up. You have been told repeatedly that there is no statement in the ToE that says humans evolved from monkies.
The fact that you repeat this nonsense endlessly is a sypmtom of some type of mental illness. You are clearly delusional.
quote:
Delusional:
A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness:
Seek help.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2005 : 13:08:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
I had to make up my mind to believe in God, and nobody on earth forced me too.
quote:
So you're saying that your belief in God was not created? Then it must have evolved.
- TW
quote:
I had to choose between evolution from monkies or coming from the hand of God. Without any comments from family or friends came to believe in God and I Give my heart to Him. I choose His side, the side of good and not evil.
And I myself, decided that reason and logic made a lot more sense than mumbo-jumbo, and good and evil had nothing to do with it.
quote:
Tell me verlch, which monkey did you not evolve from?
quote:
I'll have nothing to do with your unproven theory. You talk about mumbo jumbo than look no further than the "Book of Darwin". The origin of species is packed full of nonsense!
So you've read Origin of Species, then?
Obviously, you have not and therefore don't know what the hell you're talking about, per usual. You have accepted the stories and outright lies of those who want no more than to lead you around by the nose, as they have been doing to believers since the day one of religion. Further, you have neither the will nor the desire to investagate even the most outrageous of the crap they lay on you.
If Kent Hovind waved a Bible told you that God wanted him to have some quick cash, you'd drop your credit card in his kitty, wouldn't you?
It is people like you that make such grifters as Hovind, Ham, Bakker, et al. wealthy, and you and they smile while you do it. 
Read the Origin of Species, it's linked in it's entirity above, then, when you at least have an inkling of whereof you speak, come and discuss it us.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2005 : 04:59:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
I had to make up my mind to believe in God, and nobody on earth forced me too.
quote:
So you're saying that your belief in God was not created? Then it must have evolved.
- TW
quote:
I had to choose between evolution from monkies or coming from the hand of God. Without any comments from family or friends came to believe in God and I Give my heart to Him. I choose His side, the side of good and not evil.
And I myself, decided that reason and logic made a lot more sense than mumbo-jumbo, and good and evil had nothing to do with it.
quote:
Tell me verlch, which monkey did you not evolve from?
quote:
I'll have nothing to do with your unproven theory. You talk about mumbo jumbo than look no further than the "Book of Darwin". The origin of species is packed full of nonsense!
So you've read Origin of Species, then?
Obviously, you have not and therefore don't know what the hell you're talking about, per usual. You have accepted the stories and outright lies of those who want no more than to lead you around by the nose, as they have been doing to believers since the day one of religion. Further, you have neither the will nor the desire to investagate even the most outrageous of the crap they lay on you.
If Kent Hovind waved a Bible told you that God wanted him to have some quick cash, you'd drop your credit card in his kitty, wouldn't you?
It is people like you that make such grifters as Hovind, Ham, Bakker, et al. wealthy, and you and they smile while you do it.
Read the Origin of Species, it's linked in it's entirity above, then, when you at least have an inkling of whereof you speak, come and discuss it us.
I'd rather read a cooking book for ladies in the kitchen than read anymore of that stuff dude.
So humans didn't evolve from monkies? Then they didn't evolve from fish? So you believe that you came from a tiny human and then over billions of years you evolved into man? So what was human before it was human again? =for Dude.
And no I wouldn't give money to Hovand unless I new what the money was going to! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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