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Shacal
Skeptic Friend
USA
51 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 01/13/2005 : 13:11:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Shacal
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/01/13/evolution.textbooks.ruling/index.html
'bout time!
Anyone have any thoughts?
Very good, yes indeed. But I fear that it's a minor victory in a much larger war. A pity we can't take the offensive in it due to an apathetic and too often science-ignorant public.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2005 : 13:19:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
"The school board has effectively improperly entangled itself with religion by appearing to take a position," Cooper wrote. "Therefore, the sticker must be removed from all of the textbooks into which it has been placed."
Hurray!
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Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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woolytoad
Skeptic Friend
313 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2005 : 14:14:29 [Permalink]
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From the article
quote:
"Science and religion are related and they're not mutually exclusive," school district attorney Linwood Gunn said in an AP report. "This sticker was an effort to get past that conflict and to teach good science."
According to the AP, the schools placed the stickers after more than 2,000 parents complained the textbooks presented evolution as fact, without mentioning rival ideas about the beginnings of life.
So which is it? Do they want to teach good science or rival ideas about the origins of life? |
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tkster
Skeptic Friend
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2005 : 16:49:01 [Permalink]
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It will be on Nightline from what I've heard.
tk |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2005 : 19:11:34 [Permalink]
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Science will never win out in the United States. There are too many citizen airheads who will be against it. Science makes people think. The born-again airheads will never permit that to happen to their children. I think that the United States is very near the bottom when it comes to science and mathematics.
My family were strongly pro-science and pro-evolution. However, they warned me (and my brothers) about bringing up the subject of evolution, because so many people were vehemently against it. From what I have read, that ignorance of so many American citizens and their children does not seem to have changed over the years.
ljbrs |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2005 : 20:17:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ljbrs
Science will never win out in the United States.
Man would also never reach the Moon, at one point in time. I wouldn't sell "change" short.
While the dirty politics of "Intelligent Design" proponents and the fundamentalism of the Fundamentalists may seen intractable now, eventually the mostly silent majority of the U.S. will see them for what they really are, and say "enough is enough." It happened with McCarthy, did it not?
Of course, I think these things are cyclical, and at some point in a distant future, my grandkids will be dealing again with an extremely vocal minority demanding that their religion be taught to all. It is something which has to be tolerated if we're to be truly free. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2005 : 22:09:31 [Permalink]
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Just another "activist" judge....
But lets hear it for "activist" judges!
And Dave_W, I'm not sure I agree with the idea of tolerating these people... As the old saying goes, "The right to swing one's fist ENDS where another's face begins."
We have to tolerate them to a degree, but when their idiocy impacts people other than themselves, all bets are off for tolerating them.
If we value honesty (especially intelectual honesty) and respect for evidence, then allowing those who value neither to make the rules we live by can only be detrimental.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2005 : 02:14:25 [Permalink]
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| USA, as many other countries, need science no matter what their public think. They can't remove some parts of science they don't like and keep others. |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 22:19:32 [Permalink]
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Last night on Scarborough Country, MSNBC, they had the topic of allowing the stickers and presumably ID or other alternatives to evolution taught in schools. The transcript is a day delayed so I'll have to go from memory until tomorrow.
One guest supposedly had a list of 300 scientists that claim evolution is only a theory, with the usual implication theories are hypotheses and scientists don't really support evolution all that strongly. MSNBC will supposedly post this list on their web page though it isn't there yet. Let me guess. There won't be a single prominent biologist nor genetic scientist on the list.
Scarborough went on to give his position that those "activist judges" shouldn't be able to tell communities what kind of science to teach in schools. The other guest commented evolution was a fact and Scarborough and his Christian guest immediately shot the guy down.
They just don't get it that if the majority in a community is Christian, they'd be able to turn public schools into Christian schools by mere majority vote. So what would they say if they lived in the predominantly Rajaneesh neighborhood that was formed by that group in Oregon a few years ago? (The Rajaneeshes overwhelmed the membership of one local church and voted themselves onto the board of directors. They then voted that the church's savings account was now in their control.)
I guess if one is too dense to realize evolution is a fact, one might be too dense to realize majority rule can backfire when you are no longer the majority. There are good reasons to protect minority beliefs and separation of church and state.
Amazing how those right wing and/or Christian media guys have sucked up the talking points of the Republican Party. Somehow our system of checks and balances is now merely "activist judges" making law rather than interpreting the constitutionality of laws the legislature writes.
And, now I'm off to take the rest of my thoughts to the politics folder. The party in power has taken those talking points to new heights with their current level of government propaganda. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 01/15/2005 22:20:15 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 22:29:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
One guest supposedly had a list of 300 scientists that claim evolution is only a theory, with the usual implication theories are hypotheses and scientists don't really support evolution all that strongly. MSNBC will supposedly post this list on their web page though it isn't there yet. Let me guess. There won't be a single prominent biologist nor genetic scientist on the list.
Your guess is correct. That list is quite real, and quite famous (or infamous), and a direct response to it (and other such lists) is Project Steve. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2005 : 16:00:36 [Permalink]
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| But its perfectly fine to take the ten commandments out of everything! Your just lucky you have liberal judges that answer to left wing liberals such as yourselves! The only thing extreme liberals answer to is their own lusts. |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2005 : 16:02:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ljbrs
Science will never win out in the United States. There are too many citizen airheads who will be against it. Science makes people think. The born-again airheads will never permit that to happen to their children. I think that the United States is very near the bottom when it comes to science and mathematics.
My family were strongly pro-science and pro-evolution. However, they warned me (and my brothers) about bringing up the subject of evolution, because so many people were vehemently against it. From what I have read, that ignorance of so many American citizens and their children does not seem to have changed over the years.
ljbrs
Airheads? Airheads with any understanding of the last 500 million years worth of fossil records can see that evolution hasn't happened! Macro evolution that is! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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woolytoad
Skeptic Friend
313 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2005 : 16:25:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Maverick
USA, as many other countries, need science no matter what their public think. They can't remove some parts of science they don't like and keep others.
I disagree. Given all the lists of scientists that believe in Creation who are not prominent biologists, you could easily have a briliant Electrical Engineer who believes in Creation. Unfortuntely evolution has no major impact on our lives.
quote:
Airheads with any understanding of the last 500 million years worth of fossil records can see that evolution hasn't happened!
At least you have admitted that the fossil record does extend back millions of years! One of the mods should lock verlch's post for future reference. |
| Edited by - woolytoad on 01/16/2005 16:26:55 |
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