|
|
|
serendipitypublishing
Skeptic Friend
60 Posts |
 Posted - 01/21/2005 : 06:59:55 [Permalink]
|
You must look at the map in the right context otherwise it's open to all types of interpretation.
It tells a story . It's only including the parts relevant to the story.
The Dots represent days of free flow along the stream. Therefore a diagram that H.Herbert put a link to is the most likely rather than a temperature diagram. The bulge is likely as this is where there is greater temperature flow.
The artist drew the horse in a cave in France. He used associative memory to remember the shape of land mass. Imagine having to draw the coastline of America to Greenland from memory, we'll all have difficulty getting the proportion right, locating the islands along it's coast accurately you would need reference markers. The position of Greenland, the shape of the island and size in reference to the Americas. You need a way to remember it. Is the island closer to the back leg or nearer the head etc etc. Remember the melting ice would have created the great lakes and much of the inland waters in Canada so that's not included here. Although the dark outline of the body shows where the land was continuos.
How did they know the Gulf Stream took this shape ? They were transporting goods along the gulf Stream. Place 29 large boxes with reflected materials along the gulf stream with buoyancy and they will flow taking the shape up to Greenland. From the air is the only way they could have depicted this pattern.
The Gulf stream stops at Greenland. Why ? The current took another direction, cutting of flow to Northern Europe. Starting an ice age.
The Horse doesn't have any front legs. The smaller objects and the dots are not explainable in reference to the painting being a horse.
I only changed the colours on the map nothing else, oh, apart from adding the border for the horses head.
We're all delusional otherwise you wouldn't be logging on here day after day trying to prove that everyone else is, in a debate about evolution vs creation. When you know the answer to this question you won't have to argue it but the answer still cannot be found here.
There's no evolution in reality. And Creation cannot be defined from this reference point. However everything here can be used to show that there is another way to look at the world, an alternative to anything you know but to find it you must first give up your ideas of what you think it is and open your mind to not knowing the answer so that you may recieve it.
There's another picture in the cave which shows an asteroid hit. I think something happened to the earth which caused it to wobble and the artist was trying to tell the story from the safety of the deep cave. But I'm not sure. |
'We're all in the gutter but some of us are looking up at the stars'
Oscar Wilde
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/freeflowpyramids/ |
 |
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 07:16:59 [Permalink]
|
There are many ways to look at the world, but the most accurate and therefore the favored way is the view best supported by empirical evidence.
Translations of paintings are all well and good, but until you can come up with what was actually in the mind of the artist, it's all only a guess.
Thus, Ockhams Razor says it's most likely that the guy just wanted to paint an image of a horse, concievably a horse that he might have killed and butchered for the pot.
 |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
|
Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 07:22:16 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by serendipitypublishing
I can only define it by what it means for me.
You are dreaming right now. Time does not exist. There was no yesterday and tomorrow will never arrive. There is only Now.
What you percieve with your eyes is only what you wish to believe, it has no sense in reality. The moment you realise this is the moment you realise you know nothing of who you were. This is a re:evolution. Your mind is blank and upon it you can now understand everything in the context of the dreamer and not the dream, you will then evolve back to the knowledge of who you are, an awakening if you like. So evolution is really backwards but in a forwards sort of way.
Imagination is important here because now it becomes limitless and your return to Knowledge. That Knowledge is creation, of which no man can remember but his free will gives him the choice to decide when he wishes to remember. Then it's given him in place of what he made. So there is no true evolution just an imagination constrained by the limits of what you believe you are.
Anyway, so you don't think much of the horse and the gulf stream my skeptical friends ?
I think you're taking The Matrix way too seriously. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
|
|
|
|
BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 07:28:07 [Permalink]
|
1) Horses were not introduced to america until a few hundred years ago, so I find it ridiculously unlikely that they would use a horse image to associate a coastline they were leaving when they had never actually seen one.
2) Mentally mapping a land mass the size of America is impossible, using triginomitry and paper still makes inaccurate maps of small areas, not to mention the coastline would not be visible from the location of your drift dots.
3) Your BS Sophilisim "dream world" crap completely ruins your other arguements.
4) It is clear that you have absolutely no idea what evolution is or how it works.
5) I think delusional is the proper term, sometimes the truth is offensive. But should we not be truthful for that reason? SP I think you need help from a professional. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 08:12:07 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by serendipitypublishing
Yes it does look a little like a horse.
However, that's not the important part.
The drawing found in a cave in France,
which is thought to be 15,000 years old
seems to show a horse along side a series of
dots which takes the shape of the gulf stream.
Look at the horse painting and you'll also see
that there are smaller yellow objects which
are the positions of the islands along the coastline.
There are 2 back legs for the horse, representing florida
and central America.
I'll spell it out for you. When was the gulf stream first discovered ?
How did neaderthals know about the gulf stream ?
You assume that this is a representation of the gulf stream and not the ground, sweat, or a blood trail. I find that assumption to be exceedingly questionable.
|
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
|
|
|
serendipitypublishing
Skeptic Friend
60 Posts |
|
|
furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 08:44:47 [Permalink]
|
SP, sorry but the horse picture and the map of NA don't look alike to me at all. Even with the added lines and the strange coloring of the map, I don't see it.
Your weak argument loses alot when you make strange statments as fact. Such as (as has already been pointed out) neanderthals made these paintings - this is not correct.
You then state:
quote:
I believe this picture was drawn in the cave just prior to the Ice Age.
15,000 years ago was when the ice age was ending not starting.
Your wild assertions are based on nothing and the supporting facts are inaccurate.
You my friend are batting 0.000
|
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 08:49:18 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by serendipitypublishing
Valiant Dancer, can you clarify for me what you mean ?
Ancient peoples tended to use cave paintings as methods for ceremonial hunts to "improve" their chances in the wild. Many cave paintings bear scars of spear points as ancient peoples acted out a successful hunt ceremonially much like the Amerinds did when Westerners first landed. Just assuming that a cave painting means something extrodinary discounts more likely ordinary meanings.
IIRC, the stone in that area tends to have a yellowish hue when the surface is chipped. The black dots could indicate some sort of physical or psychic barrier to prevent their quarry from escaping. The yellow splotches is most likely spear damage to the rock.
Humans look for patterns. It's hardwired into us. Someone has found a passing similarity between the gulf stream and hacked away North America and even that is distorted. That person has leaped to the conclusion that ancient peoples had knowledge of the gulf stream while discounting the ceremonial magic of ancient peoples.
Absent other evidence, I have to conclude the picture and the map are unrelated. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
|
|
|
Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 09:43:26 [Permalink]
|
| I love this guy. It must be liberating in a way to be completely unencumbered by facts. That is one of the reasons the New Age fascinates me so. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
|
|
|
Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 09:56:05 [Permalink]
|
Again, I am sick for a few days and look at what I missed.
Serendipitypubishing, I think your letting your imagination get away with you. The luner calander explination in the BBC artical looks like the most simplist explination for the dots. Your mental jump to the map of the Gulf Stream is imagitive, but has problems.
Namely:
a) How where they able to map where they where in relation to land when for most of it they where out of sight of land.
b) While the dots do look like they follow the Gulf Stream, it is pushed away from Greenland by the Labrador Current from the north.
c) If each dot was a day, they could not have just been floating. The stream is not that fast and it doesn't push ships that fast. If they where going that fast they would have had at least some sort of sail power.
Any civilisation that could have done any of that would have left something behind that would have stood out in the argolgical record. Since nothing like that has apeared I would have to say your idea is just a fanticy. |
You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
|
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 10:23:15 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Posted by Kil I love this guy. It must be liberating in a way to be completely unencumbered by facts. That is one of the reasons the New Age fascinates me so.
Unencumbered by reality, not just facts....
|
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
|
|
|
serendipitypublishing
Skeptic Friend
60 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 16:46:41 [Permalink]
|
Thanks my skeptic friends.
Back to the drawing board or Photoshop.
I enjoyed reading your replies.
I'll post some more delusional stuff soon perhaps in the general section next time. |
'We're all in the gutter but some of us are looking up at the stars'
Oscar Wilde
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/freeflowpyramids/ |
|
|
|
ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 19:35:27 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Paulos23
Again, I am sick for a few days and look at what I missed.
I'm up to my @#$ in alligators at work for a few days, and I miss out on the fun stuff too. TANJ!
quote:
a) How where they able to map where they where in relation to land when for most of it they where out of sight of land.
And, I might mention, there was no means of determining longitude at sea until the mid-18th century, which would pretty well preclude making an accurate map of any ocean current.
Of course, if the Lascaux painters had possessed a chronometer, or the means of determining longitude by the lunar distance method, it would be a different story. But if they had technology of that level, what on Earth were they doing hanging around caves painting graffitti on the walls? |
"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers |
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 19:37:52 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by serendipitypublishing
You must look at the map in the right context otherwise it's open to all types of interpretation.
Ah...
And your context is the correct one it it?
What evidense do you have that says you're right, and that you know the mind of the person who painted that horse? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
|
|
|
R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 20:13:21 [Permalink]
|
quote:
You are dreaming right now. Time does not exist. There was no yesterday and tomorrow will never arrive. There is only Now.
What you percieve with your eyes is only what you wish to believe, it has no sense in reality. The moment you realise this is the moment you realise you know nothing of who you were. This is a re:evolution. Your mind is blank and upon it you can now understand everything in the context of the dreamer and not the dream, you will then evolve back to the knowledge of who you are, an awakening if you like. So evolution is really backwards but in a forwards sort of way.
Imagination is important here because now it becomes limitless and your return to Knowledge. That Knowledge is creation, of which no man can remember but his free will gives him the choice to decide when he wishes to remember. Then it's given him in place of what he made. So there is no true evolution just an imagination constrained by the limits of what you believe you are.
Damn! My woo-woo meter just freakin' exploded! |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
|
|
|
 |
|
Topic Locked
