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Rift
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
 Posted - 09/14/2001 : 05:00:52
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As skeptics we are gonna have our work cut out for this one.
I didn't get much sleep last night, and I guess my critical thinking skills are somewhat impared because when I first saw this, I was spooked.
A Hip-hop band "The Coup" had an albumn cover that was supposed to be printed this week for an upcoming release. It showed both WTC towers exploding, about mid-ways up.
The band pulled the cover immediately after the explosion tuesday and all images of it from the net (but didn't keep Art Bell from posting it. http://www.artbell.com/images/coup.jpg I wasn't going to post the link to the image, but after thinking about it I decided to, because there are notable differences as well as uncanny similarities)
Here's a couple articles about it-
http://www.nypost.com/entertainment/movies/news/n3815.htm
http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010913/od/attack_album_dc_1.html
Why did rationality come back to me, and I don't think "The Coup" are psychic?
I think it's an example of "convergent evolution" for lack of a better term. The Coup is a leftist anti-capitalistic band. One of the songs on the albumn is "Five Million Ways to Kill a C.E.O. The WTC is THE symbol of capitalism. The band picked it for the same reason the terrorists did. Nothing supernatural about it. The fact that there is another band with a similar cover is proof of that (The first article I linked talks about the other band).
It also shows one strength of the USA. Instead of blowing up the WTC, the band expressed their freedom of speech and wrote songs and made a cover about it. They should be commended for changing the cover so quickly (within hours of the event on tuesday) and in fact are talking about not releasing the albumn at all.
"Goddammit! The world is just filling up with more and more idiots! And the computer is giving them access to the world! They're
spreading their stupidity! At least they were contained before--now they're on the loose everywhere!"?
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2001 : 08:02:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
They should be commended for changing the cover so quickly (within hours of the event on tuesday) and in fact are talking about not releasing the albumn at all.
It should possibly be noted that it was the right thing to do, but commended?!
I understand what you are saying, but what exactly was their message in choosing that alblum cover, and that song title? I'm all for free speech, but disgusting murderous lack of respect for human life speech should be called what it is, and should be condemned, criticized, spurned, and repudiated (but never outlawed).
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Hope springs eternal but there's no conviction
Actions mistaken for lip service paid
All this concern is the true contradiction
The world is insane... |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2001 : 08:43:18 [Permalink]
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Music is art, sort of like a movie. Are you saying that no movie inviolving terrorist acts should ever be made?
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2001 : 09:14:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Music is art, sort of like a movie. Are you saying that no movie inviolving terrorist acts should ever be made?
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Not at all. I'm am saying that if a movie is made that is obviously (or easily interpreted as) condoning and encouraging terrorism, it should be "condemned, criticized, spurned, and repudiated (but never outlawed)."
Are you saying racist propoganda (for instance) shouldn't be criticised as long as it is presented as "art"?
Again I ask, what was the message these so-called "artists" were trying to get across? I believe I know, and it is most certainly not a message that deserves any sort of reasonable consideration.
You can protest ideas without talk of killing people who you ideologically oppose.
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Hope springs eternal but there's no conviction
Actions mistaken for lip service paid
All this concern is the true contradiction
The world is insane... |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2001 : 09:26:37 [Permalink]
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Have you actually listened to these songs you are blasting? But this is America. America is about freedom including the right to say things that piss each other off. I say suck it up. You probably piss someone off with things you say.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2001 : 10:31:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Have you actually listened to these songs you are blasting? But this is America. America is about freedom including the right to say things that piss each other off. I say suck it up. You probably piss someone off with things you say.
My entire point has obviously gone completely over your head...
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Hope springs eternal but there's no conviction
Actions mistaken for lip service paid
All this concern is the true contradiction
The world is insane... |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2001 : 10:42:27 [Permalink]
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No, I don't think so. Freedom of speech includes the freedom of bad taste and outrageous record albums and songs. Period.
I notice you said "condemned, criticized, spurned, and repudiated." Well there you go! You just did with that comment and that's fine. That's part of what forums like this are all about. But in a free society there will always be extreme ideas to deal with and listen to. You don't have to agree and you have every right to condemn, criticize, spurn, and repudiate.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2001 : 11:00:49 [Permalink]
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Rats, you beat me to it. I was going to change my harsh sounding response to "You have obviously missed my point." 
quote:
No, I don't think so. Freedom of speech includes the freedom of bad taste and outrageous record albums and songs. Period.
Correct. Where did I ever say differently? In both posts, you must have completely missed me saying "(but never outlawed)".
quote:
I notice you said "condemned, criticized, spurned, and repudiated." Well there you go! You just did with that comment and that's fine. That's part of what forums like this are all about. But in a free society there will always be extreme ideas to deal with and listen to. You don't have to agree and you have every right to condemn, criticize, spurn, and repudiate.
Great! See, you agree exactly with what I said originally! What was all that crazy stuff you were talking about in between?
We have every right, and I was saying that right should be exercised on hateful and violent crap like the album and group in question, and they certainly don't deserve commendation.
What did you think I was saying?
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Hope springs eternal but there's no conviction
Actions mistaken for lip service paid
All this concern is the true contradiction
The world is insane...
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 09/14/2001 11:02:03 |
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Rift
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2001 : 11:56:04 [Permalink]
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Sheesh you two :P
Let me clarify my use of "commended"- I was surprised that a group that used such images and wrote such song would seem to be so sensitive to others feelings. Maybe I'm naive and the record company pulled the cover and not them (in which case they should be commended).
I wouldn't have put it past a group to KEEP the albumn cover just the way it was and ride on the publicity... I guess I was 'commending' them for that too.
And yes, I agree, commend is probably too strong a word :)
"Goddammit! The world is just filling up with more and more idiots! And the computer is giving them access to the world! They're
spreading their stupidity! At least they were contained before--now they're on the loose everywhere!"? |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2001 : 12:02:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Sheesh you two :P
hee hee! 
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Hope springs eternal but there's no conviction
Actions mistaken for lip service paid
All this concern is the true contradiction
The world is insane... |
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