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jimrobb
New Member
38 Posts |
 Posted - 02/10/2005 : 04:23:48
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I imagine more than a few people will never forgive God for the recent Tsunami. Today I went on Google and typed in, "Why did God allow the tsunami to happen?" The search engine found 108,000 web entries on the subject. Yeah, people are wondering. Just like they wondered why God did nothing to stop the Holocast. Before that, the First World War. Many turned away from God after each of these tragedies.
And it's not surprising. When criminals in our society commit gross crimes of willful murder, we execute them. Many people, putting two and two together, figure an all-powerful God can certainly stop a tidal wave. When it does not stop, they figure it's time to kill off God for his crimes. Either too weak to stop disasters or too cruel or self-involved to care. Right? Gas him.
Unless. . . Unless God thinks differently than humans do. Jesus made a very interesting comment when some followers reported to him that the local military ruler, Pontius Pilate, had committed an atrocity, killing many in the act of worship. Jesus said, "Do you think those murdered Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans? Not at all. Unless you turn to God, you too will die." Uh, that's comfort--not! Then he points out a recent disaster in which 18 people were crushed to death. Were those people wiped out because they especially deserved it? No, he says.[Read for yourself]
So the Young Master states two things emphatically. First, atrocities and natural disasters are not sent to punish wicked people. Second, we need to remember that we will all die soon. We'd better plan for what happens after we die, either suddenly or after old age and illness.
This is a very hard teaching. Jesus, again, proves himself devoid of sentimentality but far-seeing and wise. Instead of railing at God, he seems to be saying, we would do better to consider our common fate. In other words, things are definitely going to get worse before getting better.
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Jim Robb  |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 04:57:13 [Permalink]
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Turn to God or else!
That is a compassionate(as the GOP use the word) message.
It is not because of the fact that I find the judeo-christian version of god repugnant that I'm not a christian.
It because I find him totally unbelievable.
There might exist some kind or kinds of deities, (I have seen nothing to convince me that that is the case. ) but the god of the bible is definitely (at least for the most part) a work of fiction.
[Edit: added "at least"] |
"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
| Edited by - Starman on 02/10/2005 04:58:23 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 06:07:26 [Permalink]
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Too right. A great many otherwise sober people feverently believe that God decided to kill off some Muslims. Others blather that it's a warning that God plans to bring about the End times "Real soon now, just you wait and see, heathen!" One of my double-dipped neighbors has been singing this dirge for weeks. He's a good friend but sometimes tiresome, as are we all.
In my less-than-humble opinion, the tsunami was caused by an earthquake, one of an uncountable number since the earth formed, and taken in that context is worthy of small note. If God caused it, you might wonder why He's messing around. Why not just flush the whole, damned thing and move on to something else?
Ah, but the ways of gods are mysterous, as any study of the history of religions demonstrates. That's what keeps priests and preachers and prophets in business.
After death, I look forward to sweet oblivian.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 10:52:38 [Permalink]
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| To me the Tsunami is just one more almost random happening on this orb of ours. The question shouldn't be "Why did this happen?", but "What can I do about it?". If everyone would ask the later one and act on it, things might be better in the world. |
You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 12:13:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Paulos23
To me the Tsunami is just one more almost random happening on this orb of ours. The question shouldn't be "Why did this happen?", but "What can I do about it?". If everyone would ask the later one and act on it, things might be better in the world.
A-fucking-men. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 12:29:09 [Permalink]
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jimrobb, I'm just curious. Why did you choose to Google "Why did God allow the tsunami to happen?" as opposed to something along the lines of "Why did God send the tsunami?"
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Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 12:51:55 [Permalink]
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| You'd just better hope God doesnt allow some terrorists to intentionally cause tsunamis. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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jimrobb
New Member
38 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 13:14:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
jimrobb, I'm just curious. Why did you choose to Google "Why did God allow the tsunami to happen?" as opposed to something along the lines of "Why did God send the tsunami?"
Two comments. First, Wendy, you're a pretty terrific artist, even if nonprofit as it happens, if you created that way-cool 0-1 Darth!
Second, I asked Google "Why did God allow. . ." rather than "send" because it doesn't occur to me that God causes natural diasters. Maybe he does, but that's a foreign thought to me. But just to allow something puts a heavy load of responsibility on the divine person, if there. I say he's there, so he's got something to answer for. Jesus gives all the answer we're going to get. |
Jim Robb |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 13:37:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by jimrobb
Two comments. First, Wendy, you're a pretty terrific artist, even if nonprofit as it happens, if you created that way-cool 0-1 Darth!
Thank you, but alas, credit does not go to me. I found the avatar at avatarity. It is called "AngeL" and was done by "AnAToLia".
quote:
Originally posted by jimrobb
Second, I asked Google "Why did God allow. . ." rather than "send" because it doesn't occur to me that God causes natural diasters. Maybe he does, but that's a foreign thought to me. But just to allow something puts a heavy load of responsibility on the divine person, if there. I say he's there, so he's got something to answer for. Jesus gives all the answer we're going to get.
So, like many of us, you feel the tsunami was a disaster that occured merely for natural reasons, not supernatural ones. Is that right?
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Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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jimrobb
New Member
38 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 13:45:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
So, like many of us, you feel the tsunami was a disaster that occured merely for natural reasons, not supernatural ones. Is that right?
Yes, Wendy, that's right. I believe natural causes were behind the disaster. My point is that any self-respecting God could prevent earthquakes and has therefore chosen not to do so. Why? No God? Or unsentimental God playing a much deeper game. Is it possible that as sentimentalist Westerners, we subconciously re-cast the biblical God in our image? Do we disappoint ourselves? On the other hand, Jesus does advise his followers to pray for outrageous things. So, I dunno. |
Jim Robb |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 14:11:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by jimrobb
quote:
So, like many of us, you feel the tsunami was a disaster that occured merely for natural reasons, not supernatural ones. Is that right?
Yes, Wendy, that's right. I believe natural causes were behind the disaster. My point is that any self-respecting God could prevent earthquakes and has therefore chosen not to do so. Why? No God? Or unsentimental God playing a much deeper game. Is it possible that as sentimentalist Westerners, we subconciously re-cast the biblical God in our image? Do we disappoint ourselves? On the other hand, Jesus does advise his followers to pray for outrageous things. So, I dunno.
Sounds like cognitive dissonance to me. Either this Biblical god created the Earth to be a hazardous place or this Biblical god creates the disasters one by one. What's the dif.?
And the old, "We don't know why" and all the other versions of it are a nice way of saying we're just not going to deal with the obvious because it doesn't fit our make believe version of the Bible.
I'm not trying to be rude here but when there's an elephant in the room..... |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 15:12:39 [Permalink]
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blah blah blah....
The world is filled with apologetics because you people can't come to terms with your make-believe god and the natural world unless you make up wild excuses for your homicidal deity.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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jimrobb
New Member
38 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 15:57:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Sounds like cognitive dissonance to me. Either this Biblical god created the Earth to be a hazardous place or this Biblical god creates the disasters one by one.
The Bible does give explanations. All of them are difficult. But you know the story. God's says that he didn't intend it to be this way. Things went wrong. Jesus came to set it right. But that was only a downpayment. Perfecting the cosmos awaits a second phase of the operation. That's what the Bible says. |
Jim Robb |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 16:15:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by jimrobb
So the Young Master states two things emphatically. First, atrocities and natural disasters are not sent to punish wicked people. Second, we need to remember that we will all die soon. We'd better plan for what happens after we die, either suddenly or after old age and illness.
So, god didn't send the natural distasters as punishment, but then why did he send (or fail to prevent) them at all? Jesus' answer is "who cares since we all die anyway?" That isn't a "hard" answer, that's a nonanswer. I mean, why is murder wrong then? You were going to die eventually anyway. So I killed you a few years ahead of your time. No biggie.
I fail to follow your argument. You seem to think that Jesus avoiding the question is all the answer we should expect or deserve.
I also like to point out that your statement: "Unless. . . Unless God thinks differently than humans do" is blatently false. God clearly condemns murderers with severe (and eternal) punishment. This was the same god that gave us the law "An eye for an eye." Divine retribution for misdeeds is a cornerstone of christian theology. To suggest that god adheres to an alien morality completely undermines the entire basis of christian morality in the process.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 02/10/2005 16:35:35 |
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NGR
New Member
Australia
9 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 18:08:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by jimrobb
Things went wrong. Jesus came to set it right. But that was only a downpayment. Perfecting the cosmos awaits a second phase of the operation. That's what the Bible says.
That begs the question, why wouldn't an omniscient being get it right the first time.
I'm from the shit just ocasionally happens school myself.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 18:17:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by jimrobb
The Bible does give explanations. All of them are difficult.
Difficult to find? Difficult to understand? Both?quote:
But you know the story. God's says that he didn't intend it to be this way. Things went wrong.
Do you believe that there were no earthquakes or tsunamis before the Fall?
And then H. wrote:quote:
I mean, why is murder wrong then? You were going to die eventually anyway. So I killed you a few years ahead of your time. No biggie.
I started with Creation88, but I plan on making a habit of asking people whose anti-abortion stance is Biblically founded, "so, how is it that you know for a fact that God doesn't intend for millions of 'babies' to die every year?" After all, God commanded the deaths of unborn babies long ago, why not now? And then, toss in the tsunami-style wholesale slaughters, and God's "plan" becomes completely inscrutable. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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