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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 02/22/2005 : 17:17:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by sumnihil
the point about the long jumper/hammerthrow thing goes back to my earlier statement about the exercise being a puzzle, rather than a competition.
But the puzzle has rules, whether you are in competition with someone else or not. To list yourself among those who have successfully solved the puzzle (which I am not yet, by the way), implies that you have done so within the boundaries set by the puzzle itself.
It's like a Rubik's Cube.* You could take it apart, figure out how the pieces interlocked, and then reassemble the cube as successfully solved. According to your argument, this is completely valid as he simply used another skill (an understanding of how the cube was engineered) to solve the puzzle. But that quite clearly is against the spirit of the puzzle, which is meant to be solved by rotating its various sections.
Puzzles are not analogous to "real world" situations where the only goal is to fix the problem in the most expedient way possible. Puzzles on the other hand have been constructed and designed to test a very particular and specialized area of a person's thought process. The object is not only to come up with the correct solution, but to demonstrate the desired thinking which leads one to the correct solution. To subvert that process renders the puzzle meaningless, which would then lead one to wonder why you would bother to solve it at all.
*Thanks, Dave. |
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 02/22/2005 22:53:25 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2005 : 19:05:16 [Permalink]
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Damn good post, H. Said better than I could.
Except it's "Rubik's Cube."
sumnihil wrote:quote:
as to the rest of it, i still don't get it. not at all.
It dawned on me today, just thinking about it, that the source code probably wouldn't help. And I did get a look at the source, later, as a coworker solved the puzzle and - ironically - said, "I wonder if I can find this somewhere in javascript?"quote:
why couldn't it have been a freakin' word jumble? i would have kicked the shit out of a good word jumble.
I'm one of those people who do the NYT Crossword in pen (the few times each year I see it). Doesn't mean I don't have a few cross-outs.  |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2005 : 20:15:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
I'm one of those people who do the NYT Crossword in pen (the few times each year I see it). Doesn't mean I don't have a few cross-outs.
Actually, I always do the NYT crossword in pen. Pencil is too messy and doesn't show up well on newspaper. The key to minimizing cross-outs is to be extra sure you're right. I only write in an answer if I can write in an answer that goes crosswise from it. For instance, in this puzzle from 10/19/98, I'd only write "aboo" in 11-down after I saw that 22-across was "almost" where the last "o" in "aboo" matched the "o" in "almost." (Which works well since the "l" in "almost" fits with 19-down's "ellie.") So it's like a redundant system check. It doesn't mean I don't screw up, but it minimizes them. And besides, its not hard to turn an O into a G or even an A or a D.
I used to be pretty good at the NYT Crosswords-- I did them daily and got M-Th with little effort. I could even finish a Friday crossword on occasion. But now I'm out of practice, and struggle even on a Tuesday crossword...  |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2005 : 21:24:03 [Permalink]
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Cune, I just fill in the puzzle with random letters. If it's not aesthetically pleasing, then I do a write-over or cross-out.
Seriously, I used to do the Washington Post crossword daily (even the oversized Sunday puzzle), but don't get the paper anymore. If I go on a business trip, the hotels usually leave a paper of some sort outside the door in the mornings. Sometimes, whatever paper it is prints the NYT crossword. I've still got "the write stuff." |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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sumnihil
New Member
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2005 : 23:59:01 [Permalink]
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good point h. very good point. i still have some doubts as to whether it would be cheating on a rubik's cube. taking one apart an putting it back together is a real bitch. i'd give someone who could do that props.:)
and i understand that the puzzle "morality" and real world "morality" don't really mesh. that was a good point that no one had really gotten across yet. that seems to be the base of my mishandling of the situation. but a worthy discussion arose from it, and i got to meet some nice people in the forums that way. oh, and you, too, h. :P
by the way, if anyone wants puzzles that are uncheatable and completely mind bending, try out
http://www.greylabyrinth.com
they always have at least one that is unsolved, and they are evil. very evil. karl rove evil. |
all great truths began as blasphemies.
--g.b. shaw
yes, i am aware that i do not use capital letters. it is discrimination, and discrimination is wrong. period. |
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woolytoad
Skeptic Friend
313 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2005 : 06:35:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by sumnihil
good point h. very good point. i still have some doubts as to whether it would be cheating on a rubik's cube. taking one apart an putting it back together is a real bitch. i'd give someone who could do that props.:)
Are you sure you aren't just trying to justify your actions? 
For the record, I only ever solved the Rubik's Cube once. Took me a whole day. Then I looked up some other solutions. I learnt a lot about what I could have done better. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2005 : 07:46:59 [Permalink]
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I always do my crosswords with a pen - trying to solve the english ones is a real bitch when english isn't your natural language, but I do it anyway, as well as the portuguese ones.
What I really like is a booklet of logic they sell - you know, those puzzles where you've to match house, pet, cigarette brand, etc. just based on a few clues? |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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| Edited by - Siberia on 02/23/2005 07:47:55 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2005 : 07:53:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by sumnihil
good point h. very good point. i still have some doubts as to whether it would be cheating on a rubik's cube. taking one apart an putting it back together is a real bitch. i'd give someone who could do that props.:)
Rotate one face 45° or so. Then you can pry out one of the edge cubies pretty easily. Then the two corners next to it will slide out. Repeat for the rest. Reassemble as desired, ending by reversing the procedure for getting the first cubie out.
To drive someone really batty, pop an edge cubie out, reverse it, put it back, and then scramble the Cube as normal. You can't spin a single edge cubie 180° (while making no other changes) with normal Cube moves. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2005 : 08:12:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
To drive someone really batty, pop an edge cubie out, reverse it, put it back, and then scramble the Cube as normal. You can't spin a single edge cubie 180° (while making no other changes) with normal Cube moves.
Oh, Dave W., that's evil! I've owned a Rubik's cube for twenty years and still can't do more than two sides. I claim sabotage!  |
Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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sumnihil
New Member
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2005 : 11:25:34 [Permalink]
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i have never been able to budge a rubik's. i mean, at all. i've only once even gotten a single side the same color. i've said things about mr. rubik that would make david cross blush.
siberia if you like the match 'em up logic puzzles, i invite you to try
http://www.greylabyrinth.com/puzzles/puzzle.php?puzzle_id=puzzle180
it's a doozy.
but, be warned, this is one they have already posted the solution for, so we all know how i solved it. :P
and on the crossword puzzle branch, i love them, i always do them in pen (it's not a preference, i never seem to have a pencil handy), and i hate people who use crossword puzzle dictionaries. it's cheating!
and thus the circle of my hypocrisy becomes complete. heh, heh, heh. |
all great truths began as blasphemies.
--g.b. shaw
yes, i am aware that i do not use capital letters. it is discrimination, and discrimination is wrong. period. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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sumnihil
New Member
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2005 : 14:01:55 [Permalink]
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| well, it took me a while. i made a wrong assumption, ended up about 3/4 of the way through before i found my mistake. but good job getting it done quickly. though, i consider working on a logic puzzle for an hour a doozy. |
all great truths began as blasphemies.
--g.b. shaw
yes, i am aware that i do not use capital letters. it is discrimination, and discrimination is wrong. period. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2005 : 14:26:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by sumnihil
though, i consider working on a logic puzzle for an hour a doozy.
Well, compared to getting a quarter of the way into it, and then pulling my hair out for two hours before giving up in disgust at myself, that one was freakin' easy. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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sumnihil
New Member
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2005 : 15:24:43 [Permalink]
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| good point. |
all great truths began as blasphemies.
--g.b. shaw
yes, i am aware that i do not use capital letters. it is discrimination, and discrimination is wrong. period. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2005 : 08:06:30 [Permalink]
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My wife just went to this and figured it out because a friend told her she realized it was "just the petals."
She hadn't read any of the rest of the clues, she didn't agonize over it, she didn't read the Bill Gates story. None of it. She just looked at it and solved it.
Aaarrrgghhh! |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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