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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 02/26/2005 : 04:41:28
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I'm putting this in Health because I use a fair amount of cannibis. It helps me stay off the OxyCodone. I really hate OxyCodone. It messes up my head and every time I take some, and I go through a brief spell when I feel nauseous. So, I guess one could say it's medical, albeit not a prescribed medication. For this, I could go to jail and forfit what little property I have.
I do not see the legalization of reefer coming any time soon. There's too much money to be made with the status quo.
quote:
Cannabis: the Goose that Lays Golden Eggs!
By JOE PIETRI
Today the USA is the largest producers of marijuana in the world and it's not enough.
Marijuana has been quasi legal in Mexico the past 50 years and is grown commercially and exported to the US. Canadians would love to make marijuana legal and for the US to keep the status quo that would continue to generate billions of dollars going North.
The Californians complain that BC Bud is being dumped on the market and that wholesale prices have gone down 25%, which is great for the consumer. The drug Czar warns of the danger of Canadian weed and the high 20% THC content. (I guess he hasn't smoked any because BC Bud generally pales when compared to most Californian varieties.)
The DEA chomps at the bit in anticipation of kicking every medical marijuana grow ups door down and seizing everything as well as their souls. They well remember the 1980s when Reagan for the first time let the police sell you loads of marijuana as a way to infiltrate marijuana syndicates. And the biggest mass redistribution of wealth in the history of the US occurred when they shut down the good old boy marijuana networks that operated in the 1960's thru the late 1980s. It was Vietnam style body count, the more people they arrested the more possessions they confiscated. The best properties, the best of all the spoils went to further power the police state that had all ready been created when they declared a Drug War. They only other country in the history of mankind to have such search and seizure and confiscation and forfeiture laws was Nazi Germany.
I do not believe it is possible to stamp out marijuana production nor is there really any urge to do it, in spite of the official rhetoric. It's simply too cushy a deal, as noted in the article.
And the drug companies are streniously opposed to legalization. After all, if I'm smoking pot to combat pain, then they are not selling the VA my share of OxyCodone. If a cancer patient is doing likewise to improve the appetite and just plain feel better during chemotherepy treatments, they are not selling him/her some other, ghastly concoction.
I have heard of exactly one OD from cannibis. This moron was smoking something like 10 or more spliffs a day, and I've no doubt that it was some good shit rolled up fat. I don't see how he was able to function at all, frankly. If the story is true. I have doubts, but can't verify it one way or another.
Take too many of my prescription, and that's not all that many, and it will kill you, no ands, buts, or maybes about it. I call it "my ticket out of here" and don't touch it unless the pain is really bad or I'm having spasms, which is also really bad.
And how many does alcohol, a substance that has little, if any, medicinal value, kill and/or wreck the lives of every year?
Face it friends; here in the states, we are governed by greedy scumbags and don't have the will to consign them to the historic cess pool where they belong.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
 Posted - 02/26/2005 : 05:24:56 [Permalink]
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I don't think the drug companies would have any financial reason to oppose legalization. They jumped on the herb bandwagon quickly enough. The bottom line with anything herbal is that it takes far fewer dollars for R&D and only requires a relatively simple processing plant as opposed to a chemical or biological production facility. Low investment (lease a plant from an ailing tobacco company, hmmm?) and high return.
No, they'll stand on the sidelines and have "No opinion" in the whole matter until and unless legalization happens, then they'll all be ready to jump into the market, their lobbyists ensuring that only "Pharmaceutical Grade" pot can be sold, etc.
- TW |
- TW
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 05:28:31 [Permalink]
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| If it weren't for the drug laws, billions of dollars would not be spent on prisons and courts and lawyers, and there would be less of an excuse to lock up poor people and people of color. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 07:05:24 [Permalink]
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Heh. The propaganda for pot and the likes is pretty bad. How do you think the average mom would react if some pharmaceutical company suddenly declared that pot should be legal? She'd turn against the company, no doubt. So would many others.
I'm not the kind that uses drugs (to be honest, I'm iffy even with my prescription ones). I don't drink, either. But I've taken pain medicines based off opium and other obscure stuff when I simply couldn't stand it - and man, weren't the effects weird. I used to feel sleepy and nauseous, not to mention it didn't work, at all.
People tend to abuse things: alcohol, painkillers, tranquilizers, sleeping pills. I'd guess the 'abuse' part is more dangerous than the substance itself. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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| Edited by - Siberia on 02/26/2005 07:07:43 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 08:35:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tw101356
I don't think the drug companies would have any financial reason to oppose legalization. They jumped on the herb bandwagon quickly enough. The bottom line with anything herbal is that it takes far fewer dollars for R&D and only requires a relatively simple processing plant as opposed to a chemical or biological production facility. Low investment (lease a plant from an ailing tobacco company, hmmm?) and high return.
No, they'll stand on the sidelines and have "No opinion" in the whole matter until and unless legalization happens, then they'll all be ready to jump into the market, their lobbyists ensuring that only "Pharmaceutical Grade" pot can be sold, etc.
- TW
I must disagree. The reason is that top quality weed is too easy to home-grow from mail-order seeds. I've done it. And many strains only grow to perhaps a meter tall with a pretty good yield, ideal for an indoor operation. A hydrophonic set up with perhaps a dozen plants or less would keep me well supplied all year around.
I don't currently have a pot plantation going, although I'd like to. It's a pretty plant and fun to cultivate, indoors or out.
I recall reading somewhere that the Mexicans call it "God's gift to the poor." The pharmicuticals ain't havin' the poor gettin' no gifts.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 09:49:02 [Permalink]
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In California, the voters legalized medical marijuana use. Of course, the feds got their knickers in a bind and shut down clinics as fast as they could. But now (secret) clinics are out there. Everyone knows it's just a matter of time before shops have to be set up in new locations. But they are not going to go away. And they have the blessing of our state. Local police are not charged with the job of shutting down clinics that conform to state law. And that leaves the job entirely in the Feds hands to police their archaic law.
Seems to me that this can only go on for so long. If all or at least more than half the states followed California and other States, it would be just a matter of time before the feds would have to relent. Public opinion has turned against them. Most people are convinced, and for very good reason, that the medical use of pot is a valuable treatment for many conditions.
I guess what I'm saying is that any state with an initiative process should get the Medical use maryjane on their ballots. Lobby local and federal politicians. Etc. I believe, based on what my state has done, that this is one war with the Feds that can be won…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 12:05:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
I guess what I'm saying is that any state with an initiative process should get the Medical use maryjane on their ballots. Lobby local and federal politicians. Etc. I believe, based on what my state has done, that this is one war with the Feds that can be won…
You haven't been to a RED state recently have you Kil?
And how many states voted gay marriage bans into effect last election?
Only in places like California, where the REDs are more or less BLUE (compared to the real RED places) will you ever get stuff like legalized pot for medical uses.
The fundies won't vote for it elsewhere, because their masters tell them not to.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 17:42:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Dude:
Only in places like California, where the REDs are more or less BLUE (compared to the real RED places) will you ever get stuff like legalized pot for medical uses.
The fundies won't vote for it elsewhere, because their masters tell them not to.
quote:
Drug War Facts Medical Marijuana:
1. Between 1978 and 1997, 35 states and the District of Columbia passed legislation recognizing marijuana's medicinal value.
States include: AL, AZ, AR, CA, CO, CT, FL, GA, IL, IA, LA, MA, ME, MI, MN, MO, MT, NV, NH, NJ, NM, NY, NC, OH, OK, OR, RI, SC, TN, TX, VT, VA, WA, WV, and WI.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/medicalm.htm
I don't think this is a fundie issue. Not everything is you know. Fundamentalist Christians get glaucoma and cancer too… |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 18:11:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drug War Facts Medical Marijuana:
1. Between 1978 and 1997, 35 states and the District of Columbia passed legislation recognizing marijuana's medicinal value.
States include: AL, AZ, AR, CA, CO, CT, FL, GA, IL, IA, LA, MA, ME, MI, MN, MO, MT, NV, NH, NJ, NM, NY, NC, OH, OK, OR, RI, SC, TN, TX, VT, VA, WA, WV, and WI.
I didn't know this. Perhaps there is yet hope that sanity will prevail.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 19:03:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
I must disagree. The reason is that top quality weed is too easy to home-grow from mail-order seeds. I've done it. And many strains only grow to perhaps a meter tall with a pretty good yield, ideal for an indoor operation. A hydrophonic set up with perhaps a dozen plants or less would keep me well supplied all year around.
I must counter-disagree. Top quality echinacea is easy to grow in the backyard. Same for top quality basil. Yet the manufacturers and distributers of either are in no danger of going out of business. People who grow any type of plant for personal use have little or no impact on the industry. There's a whole lotta folks who just don't have the space, land, time, know-how, and/or inclination to grow anything themselves. That's the market.
- TW
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- TW
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 23:35:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
I don't think this is a fundie issue. Not everything is you know. Fundamentalist Christians get glaucoma and cancer too…
You are correct Kil.
But, I still think that the current voting block of fundies (a large and well motivated block, as you will recall from the 2004 results) will vote however the rightwing leadership tells them to vote.
The issue of medical mj has been ongoing for a long time. There was once even a federal program for it. Reagan prettymuch shitcanned the whole thing with the "war on drugs". Can't have the fed passing out pot and then arresting people for the same thing now can we?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 02:49:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tw101356
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
I must disagree. The reason is that top quality weed is too easy to home-grow from mail-order seeds. I've done it. And many strains only grow to perhaps a meter tall with a pretty good yield, ideal for an indoor operation. A hydrophonic set up with perhaps a dozen plants or less would keep me well supplied all year around.
I must counter-disagree. Top quality echinacea is easy to grow in the backyard. Same for top quality basil. Yet the manufacturers and distributers of either are in no danger of going out of business. People who grow any type of plant for personal use have little or no impact on the industry. There's a whole lotta folks who just don't have the space, land, time, know-how, and/or inclination to grow anything themselves. That's the market.
- TW
True, but if I can build a bootleg hydro system for a dozen plants, how many could I grow if it were legal by merely modifying the existing system and setting up in a larger space? How many could I grow if I built a green house(s)? I would have enough to pass on and earn a bit of coin even though prices would drop like a stone -- hell, we'd see the return of the nickel bag. And there would be no way to tax it without registering the commercial growers; some of the most paranoid people in the world. And even with taxing them, large revenues would be lost. Tax them too heavily, and they'd soon be back to growing 'moonshine.'
And as it stands today, nobody grows serious pot outside on their own land. If it were legal, I think there would be a prolific increase in green houses, and the state parks would lose some nefarious visitors.
I am reminded that here in NC today, illicit pot is a major cash crop. I've heard it said that it is the largest, but I won't stand behind that.
The problem is that somebody might actually feel good while using pot as a medication and many (most!) others would just use it without being sick, and we can't have that, now can we? They would be impared and could not be trusted to manage their vehicles in an approved manner. But I fail to see the difference between that and a head full of booze or OxyCodone, or Valium, or any of the rest of it. Impared is impared, period, and most of these substances are a lot more dangerous than reefer to their users.
In short, you can't compare the growing of marijuana with herbs and spices. It's two whole different worlds.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2005 : 10:16:24 [Permalink]
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Once again into the breach, dear friends.
OK. I will accede to the following
1) Marijuana is no less impairing than alcohol
2) Marijuana has some real medicinal value
3) Marijuana is legally grown in the US (under license from the Navy for production of hemp ropes)
4) Marijuana is easily available as the DEA considers it not as important than stemming the flow of cocaine and cocaine derivatives as well as methamphetamines
5) More people die from alcohol overdose than marijuana overdose
That being said, if a drug is legalized, then it's use must be able to be done in public. Marijuana has a primary transferrence method of smoking. (Insert the "Smoke Two Joints" song) This method od transferral is indiscriminate and the possibility of impairing someone near you is real. (Happened to me. Granted the guy behind me in the RHPS at the 400 was chain smoking the things. And he rolled em' fat.) There is currently no measure to detemine inebriation like the BAC test. If one is going to regulate this, one needs to address the law enforcement statues on inebriation. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2005 : 03:49:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Dude:
Only in places like California, where the REDs are more or less BLUE (compared to the real RED places) will you ever get stuff like legalized pot for medical uses.
The fundies won't vote for it elsewhere, because their masters tell them not to.
quote:
Drug War Facts Medical Marijuana:
1. Between 1978 and 1997, 35 states and the District of Columbia passed legislation recognizing marijuana's medicinal value.
States include: AL, AZ, AR, CA, CO, CT, FL, GA, IL, IA, LA, MA, ME, MI, MN, MO, MT, NV, NH, NJ, NM, NY, NC, OH, OK, OR, RI, SC, TN, TX, VT, VA, WA, WV, and WI.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/medicalm.htm
I don't think this is a fundie issue. Not everything is you know. Fundamentalist Christians get glaucoma and cancer too…
There was a documentary on the tele a few years back about a whole slew of mid west farmers who had switched to pot growing as their farm incomes declined. It was mind boggling to see these very red state folks growing pot for a living.
As far as the drug companies, they have no reason to invest in legalizing pot but by the same token I can't see them opposing it, especially if it meant they needed to spend marketing money to fight legalization. That makes no sense.
There is legal money to be made, however. Everyone doesn't grow their own food or tobacco or things like that. And I'm sure some drug companies would patent pill forms of pot in a quick second should it be legalized.
My sense is the biggest opponents are the police and politicians who have been thoroughly convinced pot is an evil. It's very hard for them to reassess the situation and come to terms with the fact they have put people in jail for years over this benign stuff. It's a real mental hill to climb if you have been acting on the pot as evil belief all your life. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 03/01/2005 03:49:59 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2005 : 04:18:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
There is legal money to be made, however. Everyone doesn't grow their own food or tobacco or things like that. And I'm sure some drug companies would patent pill forms of pot in a quick second should it be legalized.
There already is a THC pill. Called Marinol.
It's not really a substitute for the medical use of pot, because as a pill it is subject to the same consequences as anything else put in the stomach of a person who can't hold anything down. It might have some vaule for glaucoma, but not for the cancer patients who can't eat because of terminal nausea.
Also, I've never heard of anyone overdosing on pot. But I think everyone knows or has heard of someone ODing on alcohol.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2005 : 04:34:06 [Permalink]
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So under wich circumstances (who, where, when) would you alow marijuana use? What benefits do you see? Which are the drawbacks and risks?
I'm not sure that the world needs more recreational drug use. |
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