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Hat Monster
New Member
United Kingdom
16 Posts |
 Posted - 09/21/2001 : 13:38:20
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(posting here since Religion forum doesn't seem to quite right for this one)
Here in the UK, religion is damn near dead. Evolution is taught in biology class, creationism dismissed as a mere myth. Accurate Astronomy is taught in physics, geocentricism would yield class wide hysterics.
So where did it go wrong? Over in USA, they have a seperation of church and state which we do not, maybe that's something to do with it?
How do you American lot put up with it? I think I'd go crackers.
H@
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 09/21/2001 : 14:07:20 [Permalink]
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We don't put up with it.
Is religion as dead as you say in th UK? I keep hearing about all this religious based violence stuff over in Ireland...
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Kaptain K
New Member
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2001 : 16:13:36 [Permalink]
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As @tomic said, we don't put up with it. We do tolerate it to some extent, because the cure can be worse than the disease. I believe that you Brits call it keeping a stiff upper lip. 8D
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Hook
Skeptic Friend
USA
79 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2001 : 17:02:26 [Permalink]
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I think it has something to do with being initially populated with all those religious nuts you brits were kicking out of your country back then. 
Actually, we do put up with it. We put up with a president, former cokehead, who ran for President because God told him to (probably just uncle Cheney with a beard). We have christian extremists twisted around the spine of the Republican party like the Alien ready to burst from the chest cavity.
What separation of church and state? 
Well, someone had a bad day today. ;-D
(P-)>
We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars. |
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Espritch
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2001 : 17:09:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Is religion as dead as you say in th UK? I keep hearing about all this religious based violence stuff over in Ireland...
That's not religious violence. It's tribal. The different tribes just happen to attend different churches.
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2001 : 17:15:08 [Permalink]
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If it's tribal violence then why do I always hear it referenced as Catholics vs protestants rather than this tribe vs that tribe?
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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comradebillyboy
Skeptic Friend
USA
188 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2001 : 18:15:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
(posting here since Religion forum doesn't seem to quite right for this one)
Here in the UK, religion is damn near dead. Evolution is taught in biology class, creationism dismissed as a mere myth. Accurate Astronomy is taught in physics, geocentricism would yield class wide hysterics.
So where did it go wrong? Over in USA, they have a seperation of church and state which we do not, maybe that's something to do with it?
How do you American lot put up with it? I think I'd go crackers.
H@
the constitution protects the rights of extremists because the well-being of our republic is premised on the rights of every citizen's voice to be heard. the two party system prevents the extremists from being too influental, but allows them to participate constructivly in government and public affairs.
creationists and their rational opponents debate each other, they don't kill or maim one another. they are real annoying, but supressing them would be worse for us all.
comrade billyboy |
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steinhenge
Skeptic Friend
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2001 : 04:42:49 [Permalink]
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| This article may be of interest regarding Europe and religion (and thanks to Ray Kirby for reminding me where it was). |
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Hat Monster
New Member
United Kingdom
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2001 : 15:43:20 [Permalink]
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Yes, religion is dead, or at least on the mainland. Northern Ireland has it's own rules, sadly. They're not really fighting each other because of religion, but because they've been brought up to hate and they bring their children up to hate. It's just wrong, but there isn't much that can be done about it.
H@ |
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The Bad Astronomer
Skeptic Friend
137 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2001 : 16:09:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Yes, religion is dead, or at least on the mainland.
You mean like in Vatican City? ;-)
Or do you mean the UK mainland?
*****
The Bad Astronomer
http://www.badastronomy.com
"With tremendous respect to [the] BA, the problem isn't getting scientists to talk, the problem can be getting them to shut up." |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2001 : 23:33:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
They're not really fighting each other because of religion, but because they've been brought up to hate and they bring their children up to hate. It's just wrong, but there isn't much that can be done about it.
Here's a suggestion from a County Cork lad.
Get everyone in Northern Ireland to raise their hands. Ask the question "Which one of you lot is Irish?"
Those that, even though their families have lived in Ireland for hundreds of years, refuse to say they are Irish but mutter some nonesense about the UK--that hate the Irish and everything Irish--those that consider themselves "conquers"--those that think nothing of murdering little Catholic school girls--those that don't raise their hands can move to England.
They consider themselves English after all. Gawd knows they act English.
Those that love the place will raise their hands; they can stay.
-------
The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2001 : 11:32:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
(posting here since Religion forum doesn't seem to quite right for this one)
Here in the UK, religion is damn near dead. Evolution is taught in biology class, creationism dismissed as a mere myth. Accurate Astronomy is taught in physics, geocentricism would yield class wide hysterics.
So where did it go wrong? Over in USA, they have a seperation of church and state which we do not, maybe that's something to do with it?
How do you American lot put up with it? I think I'd go crackers.
H@
To paraphrase Bill Murray in "Stripes".
Our forefathers got kicked out of every civilized country in the world. We're mutts. There's something wrong with us. Something very, very wrong with us.
We put in the whole freedom of religion and people here actually try it. With the good of religious freedom comes the bad of fundamentalism. Just as long as the majority keeps the minority from dictating major policy changes.
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Probity
New Member
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2001 : 16:40:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
(posting here since Religion forum doesn't seem to quite right for this one)
Here in the UK, religion is damn near dead. Evolution is taught in biology class, creationism dismissed as a mere myth. Accurate Astronomy is taught in physics, geocentricism would yield class wide hysterics.
So where did it go wrong? Over in USA, they have a seperation of church and state which we do not, maybe that's something to do with it?
How do you American lot put up with it? I think I'd go crackers.
H@
Found this article yesterday on BBC.com: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1043000/1043986.stm
Looks like you are right about the UK…
An excerpt: "Almost half of all adults in the UK say they have no religious affiliation, according to a new survey.
The decline in religious belief is most apparent in the Church of England which now claims the loyalties of just over a quarter of the population."
I, as an Agnostic who was raised Catholic, have a great respect for religion and the positive role it can play in civilized society. I was recently talking to a co-worker who was telling me that several years ago he was a drug user, an abuser, and an all-around not-so-nice-guy. He says that since he "found God" his life has turned around. I congratulated him on his newfound success and this upset him. "You shouldn't say that I did this; it was all God", he said with conviction. Rather than start a 3 hour debate in which I would most certainly begin to diagnose his irrational thought processes, and silently give names to the many dysfunctions he suffered from, I simply nodded and said "Yeah, that's great!"
And it IS great. It's great that someone can go from being a disease on society to a productive citizen. The reality for me is I really don't care why he thinks this metamorphosis occurred, I am simply happy for him (and society) that it did. For many people religion is an excuse to do-the-right-thing; and this is good.
HOWEVER, I find it EXTREMELY OFFENSEIVE that anyone would presume that I subscribe to the exact same philosophy that they do. And further more it really pisses me off when they feel it is their personal mission to force this view down my proverbial throat. And that is what is happening in government funded institutions today. They are being used as pulpits or extensions of the church. Even the White House and the Supreme Court have succumbed to this.
The Supreme Court's recent decision saying that a New York public school must allow a private religious group (Good News Clubs) to use its building immediately after classes strikes at the very core of the Separation of Church and State. The Supreme Court saw it as “just some kids who want to sit around and talk about God after school”. But here is the real story: “'Good News Clubs' are sponsored by the Child Evangelism Fellowship (CEF), a national organization that seeks to convert children as young as 5 to fundamentalist Christianity. The clubs divide children into camps of the "saved" and "unsaved," and frequently using candy as a bribe, pressure the "unsaved" to make a faith profession.” The full story is at http://www.au.org/churchstate/cs7015.htm.
If my organization or my business wanted to meet on these same school grounds we would either be told “no” or be charged a ridiculous facility fee. In my city at a large valley high school a church holds their services in the newly constructed gym every Sunday, free from use fees. It really ticks me off that my tax dollars (yes, I am a homeowner) paid for the construction of that gym and I have no right to use it! Every Saturday the school allows the church to hang a 25 foot long banner across the school sign that reminds the students to attend the servi |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2001 : 07:00:37 [Permalink]
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Do not worry about our Constitution's Bill of Rights. Worry about the religions of the world which dangerously force their ridiculous ideas on others (being one of the brilliant reasons for having our Bill of Rights in the first place). Totalitarian regimes cannot operate easily within our (American) kind of system, and their leaders look at our Constitution and Bill of Rights as definite threats. The Bill of Rights threatens the *true believers* in this country, because they are unable to force their religion(s) upon others people through law. So they scream a lot in their frustration. So let them scream...
ljbrs
*Nothing is more damaging to a new truth than an old error.* Goethe |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2001 : 07:19:34 [Permalink]
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Then again, the Bill of Rights may have led in some circuitous way to the thinking behind the WTC bombings. These terrorists cannot force their religion upon us because of our Bill of Rights, so they have taken the terrorist's way of retaliation.
Incidentally, these terrorists believed (as related in motivational letters addressed to them found in the left-behind belongings of some of the terrorists) that they were going to end up in Paradise immediately after their terrible deed. Of course, they have all ended up quickly dead, instead. These murderous acts would not have occurred if the terrorists had been intelligent enough to see through the ridiculous ideas underlying their religion.
ljbrs 
*Nothing is more damaging to a new truth than an old error.* Goethe |
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theweirdirishman
New Member
8 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2001 : 09:31:40 [Permalink]
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Man, you brits are lucky, i'm a sophomore in high school and i have to put up with my biology teacher dance around the word "evolution" every day. I put up with it by reading Darwin, Voltaire, and other great skeptic's works. My friends in scotland say that theres an american exchange program being offered....maybe I'll take up their offer...
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