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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 09/22/2001 : 03:22:14
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I'm surprised no one has commented on Bush's speech on the 20th. I found it interesting that he set such unnatainable goals as stopping all terrorism. I guess if you want to set yourself up for failure you might as well go all the way. I mena hell, this means we have to take in the IRA and bomb Ireland.
I really took issue with his statement about being with us or against us. That will put some allies in an extremely tough position and will probably make a few new enemies that otherwise might be neutral. I have heard more than a few people wuestion the wisdom of this speech and I have to agree.
Has anyone considered the irony that this man(Bush) that so recently was snubbing the entire world and causing a tremendous amount of friction between the US and the rest of the world including our allies now is asking, no sorry demanding the aid and cooperation of these same countries. Remember, either they are with us or they are against us. Again I have to question the wisdom of acting this way and frankly I think we could use Clinton because he is a bit more suited to the task and certainly more experienced by an almost infinite factor. Hell get 100 people together and i bet 99 of them would be better suited.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
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Greg
Skeptic Friend
USA
281 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2001 : 06:04:21 [Permalink]
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I'm wondering if this "war on terrorism" is going to be like our 30 year "war on drugs"? During this war, thousands in the US have had their property taken away, have been convicted on nothing but hearsay evidence, and many nonviolent people serve longer sentences than rapists or murderers because of mandatory minimum sentencing. In 1980 there were 300,000 Americans in prison, now there's over 2 Million (and climbing). This doesn't even start to mention the carnage and suffering overseas.
I wonder if it will be a war on the right-wing terrorists that we train right here in the US and send to Central & South America? Oh yeah, Congress just gave the President carte blanche to fight any way he deems necessary. It looks like Bush will be deciding who is a terrorist, not some logical definition.
Greg.
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bjones
Skeptic Friend
Australia
82 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2001 : 18:13:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'm wondering if this "war on terrorism" is going to be like our 30 year "war on drugs"? During this war, thousands in the US have had their property taken away, have been convicted on nothing but hearsay evidence, and many nonviolent people serve longer sentences than rapists or murderers because of mandatory minimum sentencing. In 1980 there were 300,000 Americans in prison, now there's over 2 Million (and climbing). This doesn't even start to mention the carnage and suffering overseas.
I wonder if it will be a war on the right-wing terrorists that we train right here in the US and send to Central & South America? Oh yeah, Congress just gave the President carte blanche to fight any way he deems necessary. It looks like Bush will be deciding who is a terrorist, not some logical definition.
Greg.
One thing about Bush's speech that I found most disturbing is his reference to God and that God is not neutral in this case and will take sides in times of war. In this case He is taking the side of America as he stated in his closing line "Let God watch over the United States of America" Also making references to the unfounded belief that "God is not neutral".
I wish he would read his history books when there is clear evidence that the most bitter and longest wars are fought in the name of God.
It is not only George W Bush but I recently heard some Americans quote "those people who flew those aircraft, hit the WTC in the name of God, so we will hit back in the name of God" Ominous words indeed, read your history!.
I prefer to say "those people who flew those aircraft hit the WTC in the name of God, so we will hit back in the name of humanity because that is really what is at stake here.
B b
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James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2001 : 21:29:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
One thing about Bush's speech that I found most disturbing is his reference to God and that God is not neutral in this case and will take sides in times of war. In this case He is taking the side of America as he stated in his closing line "Let God watch over the United States of America" Also making references to the unfounded belief that "God is not neutral".
I wish he would read his history books when there is clear evidence that the most bitter and longest wars are fought in the name of God.
It is not only George W Bush but I recently heard some Americans quote "those people who flew those aircraft, hit the WTC in the name of God, so we will hit back in the name of God" Ominous words indeed, read your history!.
I prefer to say "those people who flew those aircraft hit the WTC in the name of God, so we will hit back in the name of humanity because that is really what is at stake here.
Bb
I agree with you here, Bob. If this country goes into a holy war with Afganistan, I don't know what I'd do. I do know that I'll be moving to a country not involved in the war. Hey, I love this country as much as tha next person, but to go to war over something that doesn't exist or someone that isn't real is really f***ing stupid to me.
The way I see it, christians are godless too...they just don't know it yet. |
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comradebillyboy
Skeptic Friend
USA
188 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2001 : 21:39:23 [Permalink]
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there is a very scary fight going on between sec of state powell and the deputy sec of defense paul wolfwitz(sp?). wolfwitz and the right wingers want to bomb iraq, lebanon, syria, lybia, iran and to hell with any multi-national coalition. powell wants limited goals. since powell seems to lose most disagreements with the wolfwitz faction, i suspect he will lose this one.
if bush is as incompetent as i think he is, the shit is about to hit the fan. i hope powell and poppy bush can reason with him. we have to share this world with a lot of other folks and it won't do for us to make more enemies.
comrade billyboy |
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Kaptain K
New Member
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2001 : 12:03:15 [Permalink]
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Greg,
The big difference between terrorism and drugs is that a significant number of Americans either want (recreational users) or need (addicts) drugs. The drug trade is market driven.
I don't think that any significant number of Americans "want" terrorism.
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Greg
Skeptic Friend
USA
281 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2001 : 12:50:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Greg,
The big difference between terrorism and drugs is that a significant number of Americans either want (recreational users) or need (addicts) drugs. The drug trade is market driven.
I don't think that any significant number of Americans "want" terrorism.
I think that you misunderstand my point. My point is that there is a "war" on drugs that has no clear objectives, pumps billions of dollars a year into who knows what, and is slowly eroding the constitutional rights of our citizens. I think that this "war" on terrorism is going to end up the same.
Greg.
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2001 : 16:05:05 [Permalink]
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Now why did the shrub put Powell on his cabinet if he ain't going to listen to him? Yeesh! Powell is an intelligent officer and person. I think his ideas should carry more weight than any radical ones.
Well, we know shrub doesn't understand history, he called the thing a crusade afterall. Couldn't this have happened with a smarter, more intelligent, farsighted person in office?
Holy war, scare the *holy hell* outta me. Hitler thought god was on his side too. Fortunately, most military folks aren't heavily religious though they may have some god belief. I'd worry about the young one's coming in tho. Hopefully the DIs will, as usual, kick some ass and sense into these kids.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2001 : 17:04:54 [Permalink]
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We'll have to see who's advice is taken in the end. I read about how Powell is continually overruled but I hope this time he is listened to. But, of course, that's because I haved liked what I have heard is his plan. I think it will ultimately be very effective if it works.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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