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Originally posted by bloody_peasant

I think one thing we have to remember when questioning the illogical aspects of this type of Christianity (other than its followers are purely illogical half the time) is to this type of fundamentalism/orthodoxy there is no such thing as a good life. To them we are all worthless evil sinners from the moment we are either born or the age of accountability depending on the denomination in question. To them a murder or rape is no different in their God's eyes than a white lie or even thinking a bad thought about someone else.

Sadly this leads to the illogical (and really immoral) conclusion that the only redeemable "good" act a person can do is believing in their Messiah. Nothing else need apply because its not good enough. Of course they will argue that once you believe in their dogma you will be reborn, do good deeds, and turn from evil deeds, blah blah blah and so on. Of course even a cursory examination of the many Christians around us quickly shows this to not be true.

The determined fundamentalist will then point out that those people must not be "True Christians". They must deride people this way to prevent acknowledging that belief in their dogma doesn't really have power to transform lives as they so often claim. That people who have become Christians will continue to do terrible things such as murder, child abuse, rape, etc. However when pressed they will usually admit that they sin as well. This is where a true level of hypocrisy comes in as follows:

1) They claim all sin is equal to their God.
2) They claim to be true Christians but yet they admit to sinning.
3) They claim that Christians Y are not true Christians because they commit sin X (e.g. homosexuality).

To me if a person calls them self a Christian and professes a belief in Christ as the son of God they are a Christian no matter if they are the most liberal or conservative denomination in the world nor no matter what deeds they perform. This gets the conservatives' panties in a huge wad and they will scream how the liberal denominations are distorting the word of God, yada yada yada. They fail to realize that if this were so then the other Christians are just committing another sin that is no different than the little white lie they told last week or the feeling of pride they have of being an American Christian.

So the next time you have a Christian claiming another Christian group are not true Christians because of some doctrine difference, try approaching them this way
1) Get them to admit all sins are equal to God (some will claim that blaspheming the holy ghost is the exception to the rule, but that should be ok since the other group probably isn't being charged with denying the holy ghost). This should be easy to do as its basic Christian doctrine.
2) Get them to admit they sin. Anyone claiming they don't sin is claiming to be as perfect as Christ was supposed to be, something I doubt very little will do.
3) Point out that the difference in doctrine, if really against God's wishes, is just another sin and is equal to the sins against God's wishes they admit to commit themselves under God's eyes. Also point out that claiming they are True Christians and the others are not is a point of pride, in other words a sin in itself.

This should tie them in knots. Expect lots of back pedaling and doublespeak to try and get out of this corner they are backed in.

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Originally posted by leoofno

Is it really a common Christian belief that "all sins are the same"? The Catholic Church, at the very least, talks about "mortal" sins and "venial" sins, the former being quite bad and the latter less so. I find it hard to believe that most Christians would put murder at the same level as shoplifting a pencil. Is that a fundementalist, or, perhaps more likely, an ultra-fundementalist position?

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All are sinners and all sins are equal in God's eyes

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According to the answer on the "All Sins the Same?" page the LCMS teaches that "all sins come equally under God's judgment," and therefore all sins are equal--whether sins of thought or deed, or even perhaps where our earthly laws would have us believe one sin is of greater wrong than another (for example, murdering someone versus swearing).

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Yes you are right that there are many who say there are different levels of sin, but we also must look at what is the punishment for sin. Its all the same, eternal damnation in hell. Be a mass murderer and not repent go to hell. Tell a white lie and not repent go to hell.

Obviously if the Christian in question doesn't agree with all sins being equal then my line of reasoning above will not work.

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Originally posted by bloody_peasant

The determined fundamentalist will then point out that those people must not be "True Christians". They must deride people this way to prevent acknowledging that belief in their dogma doesn't really have power to transform lives as they so often claim. That people who have become Christians will continue to do terrible things such as murder, child abuse, rape, etc. [...]

To me if a person calls them self a Christian and professes a belief in Christ as the son of God they are a Christian no matter if they are the most liberal or conservative denomination in the world nor no matter what deeds they perform. This gets the conservatives' panties in a huge wad and they will scream how the liberal denominations are distorting the word of God, yada yada yada. They fail to realize that if this were so then the other Christians are just committing another sin that is no different than the little white lie they told last week or the feeling of pride they have of being an American Christian.

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