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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
 Posted - 04/19/2005 : 07:16:23
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What a joke! Not only has Gish been pounded on in print several times at Talk Origins and other places, I've heard so little from him that I thought he already WAS retired!
Gish has been exposed for so many times, I've not heard even "evolutionists" talk about him for years. A far cry from "breathing a sigh of relief"!
quote:
That vast "Whew!" sound emanating from the nation's halls of academia may be a giant sigh—a sigh of relief from the proud strongholds of evolutionism at the news that their nemesis—Dr. Duane Gish—has finally retired! The clear victor in almost 300 scientific debates with leading evolutionary scientists all over the world, Dr. Gish has earned a reputation as the world's leading debater for scientific creationism, and he has finally (at age 84!) announced his imminent retirement from the fields of battle.
Well, maybe! He plans to quit traveling (except to visit his grandchildren!) and speaking, but will try to write a book or two and also continue to advise other creationist scientists on how to win debates (the secret, of course, is to know the facts, and he does!). He may even accept a few special invitations to speak.
They must be hearing things!
Man, are those people full of themselves, (and something else!) or what?
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 04/19/2005 : 07:51:24 [Permalink]
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Well, we now know they've got a time machine:He was given the Issachar Award by Cornerstone University (formerly Grand Rapids Baptist College and Seminary) May 7 of this year, 2005. Apparently, though, it only allows the user to go forward in time, which is obviously why they haven't been able to bring forward evidence of the Creation. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 11:00:01 [Permalink]
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But I've no doubt that he'll be remembered for his contributions, notably Rana gishi, the bullfrog so closely related to us.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 18:21:07 [Permalink]
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For those not familiar with Gish and the IRC, here's a little on it and some history.
quote:
The Institute for Creation Research
The Institute for Creation Research, located in San Diego, California, has been a leading center for the promotion of creation science for over 20 years and publishes hundreds of creationist books, tapes, and teaching aids. It is the group responsible for the bills introduced and passed in state legislatures.
ICR prohibits academic freedom for its members. Staff at the Institute are not allowed to espouse anything that might contradict the basic dogma of the creation science model. To join, each scientist must sign a pledge professing adherence to several major tenets. These tenets include the factual and historical integrity of the Bible and the sudden creation of every living creature during the six-day Genesis creation week (Nelkin 1982).
Debates - A Creationist Weapon
A favorite method used by ICR and other creationists to promote creationism is to debate prominent scientists at high schools, colleges, and universities on the merits of evolution versus creation. These public debates go a long way toward furthering creationist ideas. By debating well-known scientists, creationists receive considerable respect and credibility. Since debates are financed and heavily promoted by creationists and other Christian groups, they must be doing it because it helps their cause. Often, most of the debate audience consists of local church groups who have been specially bussed in for the occasion. Debates are a poor forum for imparting the complexities of science and evolution, and a good forum for delivering the simplistic and often eloquent rhetoric of creation science. Having a debate implies that creation and evolution are on equal terms and that the question of which one is right is an open issue that can be won or lost, and confidently decided, by a non-scientific audience within one evening (Edwords 1982a).
Duane Gish, Debating King
Duane Gish, Vice-president of the Institute for Creation Research, is an experienced and eloquent debater in the creationist camp. He holds a Ph.D. in Biochemistry and is probably the most influential and visible creationist in North America. He has lectured and debated widely on creation versus evolution and is the author of several books and many articles espousing creationism. Gish's debate presentations are well-prepared, polished, and very persuasive to a layperson unfamiliar with science.
Good read. Rnjoy.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 20:07:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by the_ignored
What a joke! Not only has Gish been pounded on in print several times at Talk Origins and other places, I've heard so little from him that I thought he already WAS retired!
Gish has been exposed for so many times, I've not heard even "evolutionists" talk about him for years. A far cry from "breathing a sigh of relief"!
quote:
That vast "Whew!" sound emanating from the nation's halls of academia may be a giant sigh—a sigh of relief from the proud strongholds of evolutionism at the news that their nemesis—Dr. Duane Gish—has finally retired! The clear victor in almost 300 scientific debates with leading evolutionary scientists all over the world, Dr. Gish has earned a reputation as the world's leading debater for scientific creationism, and he has finally (at age 84!) announced his imminent retirement from the fields of battle.
Well, maybe! He plans to quit traveling (except to visit his grandchildren!) and speaking, but will try to write a book or two and also continue to advise other creationist scientists on how to win debates (the secret, of course, is to know the facts, and he does!). He may even accept a few special invitations to speak.
They must be hearing things!
Man, are those people full of themselves, (and something else!) or what?
Gish was very good at what he did. Unlike Hovind, Gish understood that whatever science he did misrepresent should at least be in the realm of differences that separated his views from the opposing views of those he debated. He did not appear to be a lunatic, as Hovind often does. His degree was not of the diploma mill variety. In short, he was very a very effective point man for the ICR. He has earned my respect only as an effective debater. He is also a very polished liar.
I met Gish at the ICR. He was a nice guy, really. Very personable. We, @tomic, me and others did not mention that we were “evolutionists.” For one thing, I was not going to put myself in the position of debating with the ICR point man face to face. As Tommy has mentioned more then once in fan mail, arguing with these guys in person, if you are not very prepared, can be extremely frustrating. Guys like Gish know how to win, even when they are dead wrong.
What I am sorry about, and I have mentioned this before, is that I didn't at least offer to best him at arm wrestling, winner take all. I think I could have taken Gish. I have some pretty good upper body strength. Anyhow, one thing about Gish not debating is it leaves Hovind as the most visible debater of new earth creationism. And he is a total whack job. Hovind is not satisfied with simply lying about the facts. He takes his debates to places so strange that they probably makes Gish blush in embarrassment and wish that Hovind was on the other side…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2005 : 02:27:32 [Permalink]
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Hovind is a trip. I'd really love to attend one of his 'seminars,' but he's not even a patch on Gish. Gish developed the debating style, the 'Gish Gallop,' where he'd toss out like a machinegun burst, so many straw men, red herrings, general bluster and outright lies that any contientious opponent would be hard pressed to keep track of it, much less answer it. Hovind and Rush Limbaugh have emulated this device.
Who will be Gish's successor at the podium? Not someone like Hovind, I think. He's too much of a flake and his credentials are not merely suspect, but outright preposterous; a carney-barker posing as a professor. I think he'll remain just another huckster with the gift of gab, hustling to keep the state from tossing his sanctimonous ass in the poogie for tax evasion.
But Nature abhors a vacume, and I think that we'll see someone, if not new to the scene, at least not well known come into some prominence. And he'll have an honest PhD from a secular university, although it will probably, but not necessarily, be in some other field than biology. Funny, how many astronomers and engineers are YEC.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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bloody_peasant
Skeptic Friend
USA
139 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2005 : 06:58:11 [Permalink]
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Kil
quote:
one thing about Gish not debating is it leaves Hovind as the most visible debater of new earth creationism.
I would say Ham & AiG are more prominent and visible than Hovind ever was and a little less lunatic and a lot more organized. Although they also don't do much in-person "debating" AFAIK, they are quite heavy with the published literature. Does Hovind actually engage in personal debates that much? I would have to think that would be quite the scream LOL. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2005 : 07:51:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by bloody_peasant
Kil
quote:
one thing about Gish not debating is it leaves Hovind as the most visible debater of new earth creationism.
I would say Ham & AiG are more prominent and visible than Hovind ever was and a little less lunatic and a lot more organized. Although they also don't do much in-person "debating" AFAIK, they are quite heavy with the published literature. Does Hovind actually engage in personal debates that much? I would have to think that would be quite the scream LOL.
Hovind will debate every chance he gets. He has the Gish Gallop down pat and really is the king of the straw men. And when he gets caught and his blather is pointed out, it fazes him not at all. He blithly continues on with exactly the same tripe.
But you will never get him debating in a written format, oh no! At the podium, time is on his side as long as he keeps his jaw wagging. In say, a forum such as this one, he'd get his ass handed to him in a hurry (one of my hopeless fantasies is getting that lying ass in here and serving it up to him garnished with dendroaspis venom).
An audience is all to Hovind, especally if it is mostly composed of like minded people, which virtually all of them are. And, as he claims to speak publically 700+ times a year, he's obviously invented time travel!
What a guy! 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 00:33:01 [Permalink]
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BTW, have you noticed the title of the web page?
http://www.icr.org/headlines/gish.html
<strong>Is the Indoesian dwarf a possible new species of man?</strong>
I did not know that Gish is from Indonesia, nor that he is a dwarf...
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