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Dik-Dik Van Dik
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
76 Posts |
 Posted - 04/25/2005 : 07:41:25
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according to the paper this morning (on the front page of the metro (UK)), tony blairs and a number of other important people are saying that now is the time to eliminate poverty, it can be done, and they intend to do it within our lifetimes. (somthing along those lines.)
Then hidden away on page 26 or something is a 100 word article from professor of east anglia university (i think) talking about how the best way to tackle poverty is by focusing on controlling the huge population boom in some of the poorest countries. This apparently isn't even a UN priority.
I'mm not saying giving money to charity is a bad idea, but it seems to me that throwing money at the problem is the always the best answer, especially if the money isn't being spent in the best ways. Feeding poor people is almost like treating the symptoms rather than the illness. Corruption and overpopulation are the main causes of starvation and poverty. Many African nations suffer from military dictatorships, corruption, civil unrest and war, underdevelopment and deep poverty. The majority of the countries classified by the UN as least developed are in Africa. So is spending millions on feeding the poor in these countries the best way to tackle the problem?
Seems to me that if blairs and the others were serious about this they would be thinking about a little more than handouts. Unless corrupt governments can be deposed to allow the wealth to be distributed more fairly, these countries will always remain poor. Are there any examples of foreign military intervention ever leading to a stable prosperous society though? South korea maybe, not sure. can of worms i think.
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DARWIN 3:16
"The simple believeth every word." - Proverbs 14:15
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2005 : 08:30:50 [Permalink]
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Stoping poverty's a nice idea. How to correct it? Who knows? But if major Western nations can't solve it within their own borders, how would they do it in the world?
In the US, a big step would be providing enough professionals to get the homeless who are mentally ill (most of them) cared for. Massive education reform to youth to lower teen pregnancy would also help. Indeed, that might take a near cultural overhaul.
What else? Some social saftey nets so that people who are struck with catastrphic losses-- medical expenses, etc.-- can get back on their feet without having to break their backs to do so.
Not gutting Social Security is a good thing, too. Too bad the majority of our leadership is full of people who couldn't fucking care less about non-millionaires. And too bad they've duped the religious non-millionaires into thinking that they care about religious things more than millionaires.
So yeah, DDVD, I'm pretty sure it's not going to happen. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2005 : 08:52:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Many African nations suffer from military dictatorships, corruption, civil unrest and war, underdevelopment and deep poverty.
Created mainly by people like Tony Blair. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 04/25/2005 08:53:47 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2005 : 10:33:34 [Permalink]
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| Shouldnt this be in the humor section....eliminate poverty, ha, how novel. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2005 : 10:41:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Shouldnt this be in the humor section....eliminate poverty, ha, how novel.
What's funny is that Tony Blair expects us to think that he cares.
Abject poverty could be ended tomorrow if we got rid of people like Tony Blair who are doing their best to increase it. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2005 : 11:27:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Shouldnt this be in the humor section....eliminate poverty, ha, how novel.
What's funny is that Tony Blair expects us to think that he cares.
Abject poverty could be ended tomorrow if we got rid of people like Tony Blair who are doing their best to increase it.
[/quote]
And Bush. And Putin. And all the rest of the politicians who are beholden to corporations. Etc. Lot of greed to go around Gordo, it's just the corporations ahve figured out how to tilt the scales in their direction now. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2005 : 13:03:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Alright, so lets here some ideas by which we can decrease poverty, specifically in countries in Africa and Asia where it is at its worst. And I mean ideas that directly affect poverty, nothing like "Get Tony Blair out of office" which will affect it indirectly.
Redistribution of power has to occur first. As long as decisions made by governments are directly influenced by the rich minority, poverty will never go away.
I am not advocating communism nor socialism, only better functioning democracies. I have hope the Internet will lead to much greater democracies. Information cannot be stopped in places like China that used to have excessive restrictions. Apparently now one of the few places where information is still effectively restricted is N Korea. That's pretty good progress.
Now if we can just improve people's skills distinguishing valid information from the garbage, another great leap forward will occur.
Without these steps, however, don't expext anything to change. |
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sweetmiracle
Skeptic Friend
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2005 : 13:07:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
quote:
Are there any examples of foreign military intervention ever leading to a stable prosperous society though?
The Romans come to mind.
Germany and Japan, post WWII |
Remarkable claims require remarkable proof.
-Carl Sagan |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2005 : 13:25:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
And Bush. And Putin. And all the rest of the politicians who are beholden to corporations. Etc. Lot of greed to go around Gordo, it's just the corporations ahve figured out how to tilt the scales in their direction now.
Yes, it's more a system than an individual like Bush or even a group of people like the people that get on the cheerleader squad when they do things like tear Yugoslavia apart and bomb it for weeks or attack Afghanistan or Iraq or Hait. It's a rotten, corrupt world system that breeds that kind of behavior. It includes the IMF, the World Bank, the CIA, the NED, the IRI, etc., etc. etc. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 04/25/2005 13:25:38 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2005 : 13:38:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Information cannot be stopped in places like China that used to have excessive restrictions. Apparently now one of the few places where information is still effectively restricted is N Korea. That's pretty good progress.
Now if we can just improve people's skills distinguishing valid information from the garbage, another great leap forward will occur.
Without these steps, however, don't expext anything to change.
Exactly. Restricting information is no longer an option in Third-world-like democracies like USA  , now the game is called "controlling" the information, defining what people should percieve as reality. And the GOP and neo-cons are obviously masters at that. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 05:29:05 [Permalink]
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| For those interested, a book that discussed world poverty is briefly discussed here. |
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