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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 05/13/2005 : 00:24:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dik-Dik Van Dik
schedule is not universaly pronounced like that in england. Infact i'd say it not even a majority say it that way, i think thats a class thing rather than a regional thing. BBC is generally full of upper middle class people with generic accents who don't represent the majority of the country
Cool, I did not know that. |
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2005 : 06:25:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dik-Dik Van Dik
schedule is not universaly pronounced like that in england. Infact i'd say it not even a majority say it that way, i think thats a class thing rather than a regional thing. BBC is generally full of upper middle class people with generic accents who don't represent the majority of the country
That's great, then I don't have to worry so much about pronouncing it like "skedjul"... I have a mostly English accent, and I do what I can to nurture it. (Not that simple when most of the English speaking programmes on TV are American) |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
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Dik-Dik Van Dik
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
76 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2005 : 08:38:59 [Permalink]
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| you should keep a swedish accent, its sexy |
DARWIN 3:16
"The simple believeth every word." - Proverbs 14:15
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2005 : 14:54:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dik-Dik Van Dik
you should keep a swedish accent, its sexy
Knowing English as well as I do (better than most Swedes...) I do not think it's sexy with a Swedish accent. Mostly I cringe when I hear my countrymen speaking. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2005 : 17:53:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Even more than nukular, I am aggrevated when not only the President who started the blinkin war, but so many American troups think they are fighting in Eye-rack. Eee-rock. Even Ih-rock. How hard is that? Well, if your relationships with pretzels and bicycles are life-threatening, I guess there's a limit to one's attention span and ability to learn...
Very true. Then again, the word "aggravate" means "to make worse, more troublesome". Aggravate is going to be another word which eventually will change its meaning with the general public.
There are a lot of words out there which have had their meanings mutilated. Oh, well, I seldom correctly hear or read about aggravate with its true meaning. These are words whose meanings have been changed by the general public. Eventually, they will take hold and the incorrect usage will stand as "correct". Language changes.
I regularly hear university physics professors [at a world-class university] misuse the pronunciation of the word "nuclear". Some of my best friends make this error. I never correct them. But it is interesting to hear.
ljbrs :)
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"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2005 : 21:06:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ljbrs
There are a lot of words out there which have had their meanings mutilated. Oh, well, I seldom correctly hear or read about aggravate with its true meaning. These are words whose meanings have been changed by the general public. Eventually, they will take hold and the incorrect usage will stand as "correct". Language changes.
Phrases, too. For examples,- "lion's share" now means "most" instead of "all";
- "sea change" now means "big difference" instead of "slow change," and
- "quantum leap" means "huge difference" instead of "sudden-but-slight change."
The list could go on for a long time. Hell, just 40 years ago, "Xerox" wasn't a verb meaning "to photocopy." |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dik-Dik Van Dik
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
76 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2005 : 06:14:26 [Permalink]
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americans also use words differently to how we use them in england. E.G 'regular' which used to mean:
Occurring at fixed intervals; periodic: regular payments.
Occurring with normal or healthy frequency.
Having bowel movements or menstrual periods with normal or healthy frequency.
Not varying; constant.
Its still means those things, but now it means 'usual' or 'normal' too, thanks to americanisation, now i can go into McD's and instead of there being large, medium and small fries, its large, regular and small.
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DARWIN 3:16
"The simple believeth every word." - Proverbs 14:15
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2005 : 18:35:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
americans also use words differently to how we use them in england. E.G 'regular' which used to mean:
Occurring at fixed intervals; periodic: regular payments.
Occurring with normal or healthy frequency.
Having bowel movements or menstrual periods with normal or healthy frequency.
Not varying; constant.
Its still means those things, but now it means 'usual' or 'normal' too, thanks to americanisation, now i can go into McD's and instead of there being large, medium and small fries, its large, regular and small.
True, true. However, sooner or later, meanings and pronunciations get garbled. I believe that the pronunciation of words should have some similarity to the spelling of those words.
One of my favorite misused word is disenfranchise. It should be either disfranchise or enfranchise. Disenfranchise is meaningless. Of course, those who use "disenfranchise" would never understand why the word is ridiculous. I take language very seriously.
I have a problem with Latin-based words. I think of English as the language of literature and the overuse of Latin-based words is boring and goes beyond the pale....
ljbrs :) |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
| Edited by - ljbrs on 05/17/2005 18:39:54 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2005 : 21:11:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ljbrs
One of my favorite misused word is disenfranchise. It should be either disfranchise or enfranchise. Disenfranchise is meaningless. Of course, those who use "disenfranchise" would never understand why the word is ridiculous.
And you seem to agree that language changes, yet you fail to acknowledge that 'disenfranchise' now has meaning (as a synonym for 'disfranchise' and antonym of 'enfranchise'), just like 'irregardless' has meaning (despite the twinge you just experienced).quote:
I take language very seriously.
Sorry, but I now read that as "I expect language to never change." Lexicographers take language seriously, and understand that, for example, 'franchise' is a verb well separated from its origins by loads of linguistic evolution. Is it even Latin in origin, or are sticking dis- and en- on the front "ridiculous" no matter what?
As a particularly thigh slappingly funny example of language transformations, the word 'nuclear' comes to us from the Latin word 'nucula'. Bush may have an "out" in claiming that he's just pronouncing the word as the Romans intended, and it's the folks in between - who inexplicably dropped the second U - who are the ones who screwed up. Damn, the irony here - if one takes language "seriously" - is pretty intense. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2005 : 17:59:58 [Permalink]
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Oh, language can change. But dis-en-franchise appears to resemble "no-yes" with the meaning (whether in use or not) seems to me to be indecipherable. I prefer the use of words which do not somehow negate themselves. Some dictionaries include "disenfranchise". Mine does not. I think of the word as self-contradictory. It may have meaning, but the meaning seems self-contradictory. I prefer to use either "enfranchise" or "disfranchise" in order to clarify the intended meaning.
Whatever...
ljbrs |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2005 : 23:26:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ljbrs
Oh, language can change....I prefer to use either "enfranchise" or "disfranchise" in order to clarify the intended meaning.
If the subject doesn't put you off, I recommend, just for the enjoyment of words, Julian Jaynes' captivating book: "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind." Yes, long ponderous title, and there are many books with long titles out there, but this one has a beautiful use of English, with some unusual words (like "metaphrand".) The opening text is actually poetry, with wonderful turns of phrase such as "ineffable essences" or "unseen visions and heard silences". Samples can be read on the Internet.
http://www.julianjaynes.org/bicameralmind.php
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 18:22:12 [Permalink]
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I am afraid of the casual use of words. Sooner or later, meanings become blurred and communication breaks down. Years ago, one of my professors came up my late husband and me, saying, "Louis, say something profound!" Louis replied, "If I said something profound you would never understand me!" The professor walked off in a bit of a huff. Louis was only giving her the meaning of "profound"! The meaning of the word, "profound" is "deep, beyond understanding". There may be other uses of the word, "profound." If words can have a variety of meanings, I believe that communication breaks down.
In my regular every-day life, I do not correct other people about their language choices. However, if the language becomes blurred and there are too many meanings involved, real communication breaks down and I am left guessing. For my personal use of English, I try to draw the line. Also, following Strunk et al. in "Elements of Style", I try to find correct words whenever possible. Of course, my trials can be incorrect or silly, so I am not the "last word" when it comes to language.
ljbrs :} |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 18:39:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ljbrs
However, if the language becomes blurred and there are too many meanings involved, real communication breaks down and I am left guessing.
Of course, 'disenfranchise' only has the one meaning right now. It's true that just a few years ago, it had zero meanings, but it's also true that we're not seeing a rash of 'disenhancements' or 'disenchantings' or 'endisestablishmentarianism'. If you want examples of multiple meanings, look at the verbs 'to see' or 'to go', which I would bet you use freely without communications breaking down.
...
So this person dies, and goes up to the Pearly Gates. Expecting to be greeted, but seeing nobody, he walks up to the gates and knocks. "Who is it?" call St. Peter from the other side. "It is I," the newly-dead person replies. "Um, sorry," says St. Peter, "but we're full-up with English teachers right now." |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2005 : 18:13:59 [Permalink]
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Dave W.:
I try to have a dictionary nearby when I am reading (just in case). Of course, I could never carry around the Oxford English Dictionary (not even the two-volume abbreviated version). To make it easier, I own a lot of dictionaries each placed at choice locations, so that I do not need to carry them around with me.
One of the things I admire about this site is the great knowledge of so many of the members here. I spend a lot of time (when I have the time) reading their posts, rather than posting anything myself.
ljbrs |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
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