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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 06/16/2005 : 11:18:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
After browsing this thread, it looks to me that markie is arguing from a variant of God-of-the-gaps position.
Whatever happened to the Occam's Razor discussion?
I tried to kick it back up at the top of the previous page, but nobody was having any. Ah well. Topic's never really meant a hell of a lot around here anyway, and I am as guilty of wandering off, and as unrepentant as any.
But in this case, we have wandered so far afield that I think all this metaphysical stuff would be better served in a thread of it's own. Ockham's Razor simply no longer applies to the discussion, as it cannot distinguish among assumptions that have no emperical evidence in their support.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 06/16/2005 11:20:28 |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2005 : 11:53:50 [Permalink]
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Nobody else is staying on topic so why should I.
Filthy just curious, is that a timber rattler you are holding (I assume that is a picture of you)?
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2005 : 13:08:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
Nobody else is staying on topic so why should I.
Filthy just curious, is that a timber rattler you are holding (I assume that is a picture of you)?
Yes, Crotalus horridus. He was a very old snake that finally died a year or so ago. He was with me for a long time and was my main presentation specimen due to his very calm and gentle disposision. It was a sad day at my house when he went.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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latsot
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
70 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2005 : 13:24:26 [Permalink]
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A related principle we have coined is 'Randell's Razor', named after this bloke:
http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/home.php?name=brian.randell
A few years ago our department reorganised for some reason and we had to decide whether to change the name from Computing Science to something else. Most of us wanted to keep the 'science' bit, because it made us feel good - even though we don't really believe that computing is a science as such. Randell (as usual) put this very clearly:
If we have to put 'science' after it, it probably isn't a science.
Look at Social Science. Domestic Science. And so on. Not to mention Computing Science.
I think this is a general principle. Whenever a property is built right into the name of something, chances are it doesn't possess that property. Biology doesn't call itself biological science. It doesn't have to. Quite a lot of pseudoscience liberally scatters the word 'science' (and pseudonyms) around though.
Like Occam's Razor, Randell's Razor is a general principle. It doesn't always hold. But it is a pretty decent tool.
I should point out that Randell himself probably isn't aware that we are using his name in this way. I think he'd be happy to find out through a third party though - I think he would be flattered.
Not that anyone is interested, but we stuck with Computing Science.
Cheers
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2005 : 20:39:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latsot
If we have to put 'science' after it, it probably isn't a science.
Look at Social Science. Domestic Science. And so on. Not to mention Computing Science.
I'm not sure, but I think there's a confusion of levels of hierarchy here.
There is biology, and molecular biology, and genomics, and a host of other fields which you'll find being taught under "biological sciences." There is also sociology and ethnology and others which fall into the "social sciences" category.
Under "computer science," I would expect to find a whole host of related fields. I notice at your school, for example, BSc are available in four different "flavors," depending on speciality, and there are three different Masters degrees, too. "Computing" may not itself be a science, but there are plenty of "computing sciences." |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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latsot
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
70 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 00:52:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'm not sure, but I think there's a confusion of levels of hierarchy here.
There is biology, and molecular biology, and genomics, and a host of other fields which you'll find being taught under "biological sciences." There is also sociology and ethnology and others which fall into the "social sciences" category.
Under "computer science," I would expect to find a whole host of related fields. I notice at your school, for example, BSc are available in four different "flavors," depending on speciality, and there are three different Masters degrees, too. "Computing" may not itself be a science, but there are plenty of "computing sciences."
Perhaps you are taking this just a little too seriously 
Randell was just saying that if we have to insist something is a science, perhaps we are trying too hard. I mentioned it as a specialist application of Occam's Razor, but I wasn't exactly being serious.... |
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