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markie
Skeptic Friend
Canada
356 Posts |
 Posted - 07/10/2005 : 20:44:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by markiepleco: Can there be a thriving brotherhood of mankind when there is no concept of a common Father who is over all? I doubt it. quote:
Originally posted by pleco: Absolutely there can be...but it is going to take a long time of social and cultural (possibly mental?) evolution to get there...primary of which is the final break from the primative mysticism that is so distracting, devisive, and destructive.
I agree that brotherhood based on a secular foundation is possible, but I doubt it could *thrive*. One reason is that a strong idealism is necessary to overcome the inertia of our animal legacy. (imo) I just don't see such idealism springing out of a secular humanism which asserts that man is essentially an accidental blip on the screen of the universe.
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markie
Skeptic Friend
Canada
356 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2005 : 20:58:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by markie: Can there be a thriving brotherhood of mankind when there is no concept of a common Father who is over all? I doubt it. quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert: You sound like a monarchist.
Actually I believe in Deity within all (people), not just over all. Maybe that doesn't sound so monarchist. Then again, as legend has it, even a brilliant being like Lucifer had a problem with the invisible 'monarchy'.
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markie
Skeptic Friend
Canada
356 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2005 : 21:30:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by markie: Religion should *exalt* humanism, because it aims for an eternal idealism, a perfectionism... quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.: Does it? The Jewish god told them to enslave other humans. The Christian god is sexist. There are all sorts of war gods. Historically, most religions have shown little regard for the individual.
. Too true. Religion up to the present has hardly exalted humanism. But it still *should*, imo. It should afford man a dignity that inspires him to greatness. Jesus' religion did, but alas Christianity is little to do with Jesus' religion.
quote:
Originally posted by markie: Can there be a thriving brotherhood of mankind when there is no concept of a common Father who is over all? I doubt it. quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.: Well, you've just shown your pessimism.
You mean my 'skepticism'?  Hey I don't even believe we would be here without Deity, and if that means pessimism as to what a godless mechanistic universe could produce by itself, then so be it. Thankfully, God is all over the place so I'm hardly pessimistic at all.
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.: People won't behave without the threat of an all-powerful bully, or people won't behave unless they're bribed by an eternal benevolence, or something else along those lines.
Hey, I have two boys that I don't threaten, neither do I bribe them. (Well, most of the time  ) Yet it brings them no end of pleasure to do what they think would please me in some way. So it shouldn't be hard to see that a perfect Father or Mother could somehow inspire their offspring to do good, quite apart from any bribery or threatening. As Jesus said somewhere "I always do what pleases Him."
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.: Why is it that religious people are so depressing?
Hmmm, I'm not sure .... but I have visited phychiatric wards on many occassions so maybe I can relate to what you might be feeling
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markie
Skeptic Friend
Canada
356 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2005 : 21:43:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Regarding the Shroud, I don't think anyone's linked an article about this study carried out by Jacques di Costanzo and published in Science et Vie. ........
I was unable to dig up any photos of the recreated shroud, but it certainly appears that all the characteristics of the original have been reproduced.
Thanks for the link. But what is this, selective skepticality? The title of the website article reads "Turin Shroud confirmed as a fake". While it *may* be true, waaaay too many details regarding the recreated image were not forthcoming in that article. That should be enough to arose the suspicion of a skeptic regarding it's "confirmation" I should think. Hopefully more details will become avaibable in time.
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2005 : 03:02:58 [Permalink]
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May I suggest we take this Shroud conversation to The Shroud of Turin: Older Than We Thought. Better yet, This one seems more appropriate; Shroud ad nauseum.
I was actually enjoying the original intent of this thread, but I ain't too swuft and now I'm completely befuddled. |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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markie
Skeptic Friend
Canada
356 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2005 : 07:18:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Tim
May I suggest we take this Shroud conversation to The Shroud of Turin: Older Than We Thought. Better yet, This one seems more appropriate; Shroud ad nauseum.
I was actually enjoying the original intent of this thread, but I ain't too swuft and now I'm completely befuddled.
That would make two people befuddled then.
Thanks for the link. Interestingly, before I posted on the Shroud I made sure to google the SFN site, but it didn't show that thread at all.
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latsot
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
70 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2005 : 10:19:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
I wasn't hostile, and intended no hostility.
You seemed hostile. You seemed to become increasingly hostile in your replies.
I'm quite happy to debate...well...anything... and i dont think what I said was inconsistent.
Calm down. I think we are on the same side.
r
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