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 Canonizing The Canonizer!
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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 06/28/2005 :  00:00:45  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
quote:
To canonise the late pontiff, the Vatican must find evidence of at least two miracles since his death - miraculous acts proven to have happened after a direct appeal to John Paul through prayer.
Anybody who think they will fail?
How many of those that prayed to JP got worse?

quote:
Asked what he thought about making John Paul II a saint, the Rev D'Alonzo [acting as the Devil's Advocate] replied that it was not for him to decide, only to "verify the truth".
Monsignor Slawomir Oder, the main advocate for the late Pope's case, said last week he had received statements from across the world, with about 100 e-mails filling his inbox every day.
Send in the clowns...

"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 06/28/2005 :  02:56:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
I don't recall exactly, but in one thread it was predicted that JP would be be on the fast track for saintitude. And so he is, and he's going to get it in record time because miracles are very easy to come up with: No priest got busted for pedophilia since the glorius papal croaking! Miracle! And so forth.

I rather doubt that it'll make much difference to the canonized corpse one way or another.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2998 Posts

Posted - 06/28/2005 :  05:53:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
I rather doubt that it'll make much difference to the canonized corpse one way or another.


LOL - anyone know if the late pope's corpse has started decomposing yet?

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 06/28/2005 :  06:38:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by pleco

quote:
Originally posted by filthy
I rather doubt that it'll make much difference to the canonized corpse one way or another.


LOL - anyone know if the late pope's corpse has started decomposing yet?



We'll have to find out when they dig him up in a few decades.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 06/28/2005 :  12:18:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Discussing miracles, this might be of interest.
quote:
The first problem with the notion of miracles is definition. So here's the only meaningful definition of the word "miracle" as it's used today:
mir-a-cle; n., sing. - any sort of mostly spontaneous occurrence that can be interpreted by a sufficiently motivated person as proof of some specific metaphysical belief

You may already have grasped the problem. The definition sucks. Just about anything qualifies as a miracle to someone, and there is no rigorous test for the concept.

Miracles are events in which a higher power decides to intervene in human events, usually to some beneficient purpose, as opposed to magic or witchcraft, in which a human exploits presumed loopholes in the laws of nature to create change according to their own will.

Miracles can occur spontaneously, or they can be urgently requested by groveling for favors from unseen powers, a process sometimes referred to as "prayer." To qualify as a miracle, an event must be either physically impossible, freakishly improbable or extraordinarily convenient. This can include:

Spontaneous healing of illness or grave injury
Spontaneous generation of illness or grave injury
Extreme weather or geological phenomena which have an unusually beneficial or detrimental effect on people's lives
Apparitions by major deities or their minions
Resurrection of the dead (not to be confused with reanimation of the undead
The creation of miraculous pictures or images
Particularly colorful or accurate prophecies
Speaking in languages you don't know, or speaking to multitudes, all of whom hear the words in their own language
In addition to the above miracles, which are pretty widely agreed on, you can find plenty of people who believe in somewhat less impressive miracles. These miracles can easily be explained by simple science, medicine or human error, but people believe in them anyway.

After a reading of this article, one can't help but assume that JP will have had miracles coming out of his withered, necrotic wazoo, come canonazation time. It is important, even critical, to the church that the ceremonies go as planned. The flock demands it and they shall have it. What the hell; it won't cost all that much and will keep the faithful (and their gelt) in line.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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dv82matt
SFN Regular

760 Posts

Posted - 06/29/2005 :  00:55:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send dv82matt a Private Message
Great page filthy. Let me try my hand a defining what a miracle is.

miracle: a fortunate event

No wait, that's too broad. How about this,

miracle: a very fortunate event

Yes, that's much better.
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