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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
 Posted - 07/05/2005 : 12:19:49
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I don't blame them; I'd be upset too. This is the email that I got about this:
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the_ignored,
As an atheist leader in the state of Alabama, Larry Darby should raise our concern. In a move that will ruin his reputation and that of his organization, Darby will this week host David Irving, the posterboy of Holocaust deniers.
Darby's incessant haranguing of Israel and Jews in his newsletters, now combined with support for Irving of all people, will further marginalize his organization, and rightly so. Let's hope the stink doesn't rub off on the rest of us.
Everyone knows that Israel is to some extent a religious state - and that religious faith is a primary sentiment driving Israeli colonists to cling to their 'holy' land as much as the Palestinians. But with this event Darby has finally crossed the line of civil discourse. This is dirty and ugly. Frankly, David Irving is the kind of guy I would protest, throw a pie at, punch in the gut, etc. Irving represents a monumental insult to critical thought; he is the triumph of our baser selves over our reason.
"I don't see any reason to be tasteful about Auschwitz. It's baloney, it's a legend. Once we admit the fact that it was a brutal slave labour camp and large numbers of people did die, as large numbers of innocent people died elsewhere in the war, why believe the rest of the baloney?" Irving said.
He added, "I say quite tastelessly, in fact, that more women died on the back seat of Edward Kennedy's car at Chappaquiddick than ever died in a gas chamber in Auschwitz."
He went on, "Oh, you think that's tasteless, how about this? There are so many Auschwitz survivors going around, in fact the number increases as the years go past, which is biologically very odd to say the least. Because I'm going to form an Association of Auschwitz survivors, survivors of the Holocaust and other liars, or the ASSHOLS."
Fellow Universists, the First Amendment restricts our government from censoring us, I support it, and we should stand against hate crime legislation that would infringe on this fundamental right. But we must never forget that while we can say what we like, it actually is the content of our speech that matters. That is the point of the protection.
Organizations like the Atheist Law Center explain why atheism is a dirty word in American society.
The Universist Movement will hereby cease current and future association with Larry Darby and the Atheist Law Center. Unlike the U.S. Constitution, we don't treat all ideas equally.
For a better future,
Ford Vox
vox@universist.com
Director, The Universist Movement
The Evolution and Revolution of Religion
http://faithless.org and http://universist.org
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You can guess what the ramifications of this are going to be...
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
Edited by - the_ignored on 07/05/2005 12:20:21
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 07/05/2005 : 12:25:23 [Permalink]
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| My guess would be that the Atheist Law Center was pretty marginal before this. I'd never heard of it. Have they done anything notable? That this will marginalize them further gets a big [shrug] from me. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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trishran
Skeptic Friend
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2005 : 15:06:28 [Permalink]
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| Here's a skeptical question: Since people can name their organizations anythig they want, what's to stop someone who wants to make atheists look bad creating an organization with atheism/atheist in the name and spewing things they know will get people riled up? |
trish |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2005 : 18:58:05 [Permalink]
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Wasn't that the deal behind "Communists for Kerry" last election, Trish?
In other words, there's nothing to stop anyone from "misbranding" themselves for political gain. There are probably plenty of creationists who find Kent Hovind so appalling that they think he's an evolutionary biologist in disguise to discredit creationism. And what's-his-name over at LandoverBaptist does a good job on everyone, fundamentalist and atheist alike, few of whom get the joke. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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trishran
Skeptic Friend
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2005 : 11:49:27 [Permalink]
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| I hadn't heard about the Commies for Kerry, but I'm not surprised, either. |
trish |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2005 : 17:45:57 [Permalink]
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In regards to the Atheist Law Center being marginalized:
It's founder, Larry Darby, is a fairly prominent Atheist activist. He is certainly the most visible one in Alabama. He's also a member of American Atheists and spoke at the Godless March on Washington which was broadcasted on cable television. (One of the CNN stations, but not the main one)
I met Darby and his two lovely daughters at Camp Quest in 2001. He struck me a very fervent (perhaps a little too fervent) atheist activist, but I chalked up his scorn for all things religious to geography. (Alabama isn't exactly the most friendly place for atheists.)
But I think what makes Darby well known to many people within the freethought movement is his atheist news emails that go out incredibly reliably and have become more sophisticated over the years.
If Darby and the Atheist Law Center is marginalized, it is only because the freethought movement as a whole is marginalized. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2005 : 19:02:04 [Permalink]
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Welcome to the Skeptic Friends Network, marfknox.
I must admit that I run more in "skeptic" and "evolution" circles than I do in "atheist" circles, simply because I prefer to focus on more than one subject (I used to just focus on the skin disease psoriasis).
But, general skepticism and the evolution/creation battles often "devolve" into atheist-vs-Christian arguments, and I've seen a lot of "reasons for atheism" and other such Web resources bandied about. Yet, I've never heard of Larry Darby (that I can remember), or the Atheist Law Center.
And Googling him just now, I'm surprised, since I've tried to keep up on the Ten Commandments stuff. Is the Atheist Law Center staying out of the ID-vs-evolution lawsuits, or are they just quietly filing amicus briefs?
Now, perhaps a question you can answer, marfknox: is the "freethought movement" strictly an atheist movement? In other words, are "freethought" and "atheism" synonyms? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2005 : 17:23:07 [Permalink]
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>> Now, perhaps a question you can answer, marfknox: is the "freethought movement" strictly an atheist movement? In other words, are "freethought" and "atheism" synonyms?
Oh goodness, I hope not. I've got lots of friends in the freethought movement who don't and won't identity themselves as "atheists". Heck, Michael Shermer's a great example, he lables himself a "nontheist". Then there's "agnostics", "brights", and one of my friends calls himself a "compassionate hedonist"!
But beyond lables (because if we're intellectually honest, such people as Shermer are only avoiding the lable "atheist" because of negative connotations - and I can't say I blame him) I certainly believe there are many mystic and theistic freethinkers. All you really need to be a freethinker is to come to beliefs based on honest inquiry and accept that your beliefs might be wrong. Some, such as UUs, are definately part of the "freethought movement" seeing as Unitarians helped write the Humanist Manifesto and many openly call themselves "freethinkers". Also, liberal Christian groups, Reform Jews and other liberal theistic groups could be considered at least to be friends of the freethought movement, if not actually a part of it. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2005 : 17:29:06 [Permalink]
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>> I must admit that I run more in "skeptic" and "evolution" circles than I do in "atheist" circles, simply because I prefer to focus on more than one subject (I used to just focus on the skin disease psoriasis).
Hmmm... I suppose that's why I run in Humanist circles as well as atheist ones. Humanist tend to be active on a lot of human rights issues I care deeply about, as well as supporting good science education in public schools. But the larger "freethought" movement at least encompasses Skeptics, Humanists, Church-State Separation proponents and Atheists. I'm not arguing that it is clear cut group, but rather that we are all pretty closely related. Many groups under the above lables have spintered off from each other, or formed alliances with each other, or both, and there's tons of crossover with membership. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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trishran
Skeptic Friend
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2005 : 13:12:20 [Permalink]
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I just noticed a message about Larry Darby on the American Atheists page:http://www.atheists.org/
They note that Mr Darby hasn't been a state director of American Atheists for over 2 years, and that how he conducts himself is not a reflection of the official position of American Atheists and its officers. |
trish |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2005 : 22:55:52 [Permalink]
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>> "how he conducts himself is not a reflection of the official position of American Atheists and its officers."
Thanks for posting that.
I notice it was posted just today... indeed, poor Larry has ruined his reputation.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 07/21/2005 22:44:46 |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2005 : 23:47:58 [Permalink]
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I seem to recall he took quite a bit of interest in this: http://alabamafreethought.org/atheists_in_foxholes.htm
I'm not really sure what to make of Darby taking an apparent dive off the deep-end. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2005 : 03:49:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Trish
I seem to recall he took quite a bit of interest in this: http://alabamafreethought.org/atheists_in_foxholes.htm
I'm not really sure what to make of Darby taking an apparent dive off the deep-end.
I really liked that poem. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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