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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 07/12/2005 : 19:12:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tw101356
Actually the Illuminati do exist, but they're merely a red herring thrown up by the lizard people who themselves are a false front created by the Mafia. The Mafia, in turn, is really a Jesuit run organization, but the Jesuits actually answer to the Bilderberg Group, which is, of course, the public face of the Trilateral Commission. The heads of the Trilateral Commission are the puppets of the Masons, who are the front organization that masks the nefarious plots of the AAA. Triple A is but one arm of the Illuminati.
ROFL! This is classic.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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HYBRID
BANNED
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 19:17:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
If it is indeed true that people can have a malevolent intent, and that it may be possible for them to move about, and shape ultimately the course of the world without being exposed, by the massess as a whole and not just a few, then a lot of things may be possible. I am actually tring to go somewhere with this, it just depends on the guy with the nice sumerian writing name says next, and also how you respond.
Yes, it is. I wouldn't say 'malevolent', though. That's too conspiracy theory like. I'd say "to their own interests" - mostly
financial.
Its too conspiracy? There you go shutting down your thinking with one word generalizations. If you put all things into this category, people will be keep getting away with all types of crime, and generalizing it all into conspiracy will ensure they will succeed. Not any particular party, just in general right now.
But it is also dead hard to keep masses (and I'm not talking about a handful of military people - I'm talking about thousands, if not millions of people) with their mouths tightly shut. Hell, it's hard even to keep a company's employees with their mouths shut! I had to sign an incredible amount of stuff just to keep my job's affairs secret (I work with Market Intelligence - intelligence as the intelligence in CIA, only to a much lesser, lighter degree) and I have no doubt leakage still occurs, if not from me, from somebody else.
Of course it leaks out. It has leaked out all over the place. Religion controls millions, spiritually, and emotionally, and therefore physically, and it is not convincing at all. People have mouths to feed. We inevitably have become a part of a system that we need to exist, only in most people's minds, to survive, or at least we think so. Like I said, if the government is doing some bad things, how would you stop it? Do you think they could stop you first?
And yes, the Illuminati did exist. A long time ago. Weren't they extinguished? My history fails me now.
No. The Bavarian Illuminati, the group you are referring to, there leader Adam Weishept was caught and tried. This group was started in 1776, and its creed was discovered and kept in a museum in France. They used the same symbols as many other secret societies throughout the years. I have taken courses in which we researched some very powerful mystery schools, their beliefs and some of their symbols. One of these mystery schools that existed as far back as 3000 b.c., used the same symbols as THIS branch of the illuminati, Bavarian.
I will identify some of these things if need be, so don't just on me yet. I have a 1986 dictionary and a 1964 dictionary which identifies the illuminati as "...a type of sect or religious group which has knowlegde denied to regular people or non-initiates..". |
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HYBRID
BANNED
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 19:19:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tw101356
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
So what you are saying is that the illuminati do not exist?
Actually the Illuminati do exist, but they're merely a red herring thrown up by the lizard people who themselves are a false front created by the Mafia. The Mafia, in turn, is really a Jesuit run organization, but the Jesuits actually answer to the Bilderberg Group, which is, of course, the public face of the Trilateral Commission. The heads of the Trilateral Commission are the puppets of the Masons, who are the front organization that masks the nefarious plots of the AAA. Triple A is but one arm of the Illuminati.
Do not patronize me, because you are just talking out of the side of your neck, and generalizing something I don't think you know enough about.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 19:55:11 [Permalink]
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| Oh, I see, the new world order discussion is here... I missed this. Lizards anyone? |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 20:00:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
quote:
Originally posted by tw101356
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
So what you are saying is that the illuminati do not exist?
Actually the Illuminati do exist, but they're merely a red herring thrown up by the lizard people who themselves are a false front created by the Mafia. The Mafia, in turn, is really a Jesuit run organization, but the Jesuits actually answer to the Bilderberg Group, which is, of course, the public face of the Trilateral Commission. The heads of the Trilateral Commission are the puppets of the Masons, who are the front organization that masks the nefarious plots of the AAA. Triple A is but one arm of the Illuminati.
Do not patronize me, because you are just talking out of the side of your neck, and generalizing something I don't think you know enough about.
Well, us Annunaki often talk out of the side of our neck. It happens when we've unhinged our jaws in order to swallow something whole and forgotten to rehinge them.
Also, since we control the world and nobody believes we exist, who will believe you?
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- TW
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HYBRID
BANNED
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 20:09:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tw101356
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
quote:
Originally posted by tw101356
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
So what you are saying is that the illuminati do not exist?
Actually the Illuminati do exist, but they're merely a red herring thrown up by the lizard people who themselves are a false front created by the Mafia. The Mafia, in turn, is really a Jesuit run organization, but the Jesuits actually answer to the Bilderberg Group, which is, of course, the public face of the Trilateral Commission. The heads of the Trilateral Commission are the puppets of the Masons, who are the front organization that masks the nefarious plots of the AAA. Triple A is but one arm of the Illuminati.
Do not patronize me, because you are just talking out of the side of your neck, and generalizing something I don't think you know enough about.
Well, us Annunaki often talk out of the side of our neck. It happens when we've unhinged our jaws in order to swallow something whole and forgotten to rehinge them.
Also, since we control the world and nobody believes we exist, who will believe you?
HOw about you quit making smart ass comments, stick to the subjects at least semi-seriously, and make some thoughful contributions. |
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woolytoad
Skeptic Friend
313 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 20:24:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tw101356
Well, us Annunaki often talk out of the side of our neck. It happens when we've unhinged our jaws in order to swallow something whole and forgotten to rehinge them.
Also, since we control the world and nobody believes we exist, who will believe you?
lol. |
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HYBRID
BANNED
USA
344 Posts |
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 20:32:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
HOw about you quit making smart ass comments, stick to the subjects at least semi-seriously, and make some thoughful contributions.
Fine.
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If it is possible for people in the world with power and money to get away with bad things,
This is possible. This is not a certainty.
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then why is everything that portrays a group of people doing something bad, and trying to get away, like all criminals do, always lumped into the conspiracy category,
What evidence do you have that this is always the case?
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when we know these people are going to do WHATEVER to keep it secret,
How do we know this? Often enough people feel guilty about things that they have done. You assume that everyone is remorseless but give no evidence that this is true.
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and they are not going to just turn themselves in?
Some do. Some brag to others and get reported. Some just act stupid and get caught. Some get found by investigation. The more people involved in any illegal activity, the more likely it is to be revealed.
quote:
Are governments perfect?
No.
quote:
Are they capable of corruption?
Yes
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How about the us government?
Bush Administration - corrupt. Average Joe civil servant - no more corrupt than the average Joe. Everyone else - somewhere in between.
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Or is it that all good people come from america, and they are not capable of the atrocities that other leaders commit in other countries?
There's atrocities and there's atrocities. Do you have any in mind? This is a vague question. Of course people are capable of horrible atrocities, but that doesn't mean any specific person has committed one.
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But they are just humans too.If this is so, why is everything deemed a conspiracy?
You're the one talking about groups of bad people getting away with crimes. By definition, you are theorizing about a conspiracy. The next step is to provide evidence to back up your theory. Without evidence, it can only be classified as a conspiracy theory.
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Is it a psychological defense mechanism so that we can block it out, and act as if it does not exist?
No. We'd have to be shown evidence that it did exist in order to even have a reason to block it out.
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It would be easier to do that rather than to try and change things.
Without evidence, the only thing that can be changed is your theory.
quote:
Any thoughts?
Yes. Your profile quotes Davide Icke. I have a theory that you are leading toward expounding on his fantasies of world domination by lizard aliens. At the moment the only evidence I have is your profile quote and your seeming sensitivity to my little conspiracy paragraph, which seems to have pressed a lot of Ickesian buttons (Masons, Illuminati, lizards).
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HYBRID
BANNED
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 20:32:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by woolytoad
quote:
Originally posted by tw101356
Well, us Annunaki often talk out of the side of our neck. It happens when we've unhinged our jaws in order to swallow something whole and forgotten to rehinge them.
Also, since we control the world and nobody believes we exist, who will believe you?
lol.
You need to shut up or say something worth hearing, and not just bandwagon jump for a free ego trip, umkay. |
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HYBRID
BANNED
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 20:41:45 [Permalink]
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You call that being sensitive. Yeah right. I have had my own thoughts and research which lead to some of the things icke and many others have described, before I ever heard of him. But guess where a lot of my info comes from, college! It is amazing what you learn when you actually have an open mind. But I see that this conversation will go no where. SO let's do us both a favor and end it.No matter what evidence I present, there is no nwo, no secret societies, no global maniputlation, even thought the perps have left a trail a mile long for a long time and pretty much boasted of the things they are doing.
This is a waiste of time I am afraid. You would not be able to understand the basics, because we live in a fairy tale land where everyone loves everyone, the u.s. has the nicest best people in the world, and everything is random including mass genocides and atrocities(you figure it out) happen on a daily bases.I don't care what you think. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 21:31:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
No. The Bavarian Illuminati, the group you are referring to, there leader Adam Weishept was caught and tried. This group was started in 1776, and its creed was discovered and kept in a museum in France. They used the same symbols as many other secret societies throughout the years. I have taken courses in which we researched some very powerful mystery schools, their beliefs and some of their symbols. One of these mystery schools that existed as far back as 3000 b.c., used the same symbols as THIS branch of the illuminati, Bavarian.
I will identify some of these things if need be, so don't just on me yet. I have a 1986 dictionary and a 1964 dictionary which identifies the illuminati as "...a type of sect or religious group which has knowlegde denied to regular people or non-initiates..".
If I read the definition correctly, it states that non-initiates are denied knowledge of the inner workings of a particular sect or religious group. Does this mean Christianity is a form of illuminati? One young woman with whom I work is from Persia. She had no understanding of why someone would think their car was haunted by evil spirits because the license plate number contained the digits '666'.
I'm certain that I don't know the oaths or whatnot required of one who belongs to the Eagles Lodge down the road. Does this define Eagles as Illuminati?
Hybrid, you've read more into the definition than exists. If you look, you can see where the error was made. That knowledge denied to non-initiates does not necessarily equate to a major portion of control over the world.
The same holds true for UFOs. UFOs, Unidentified Flying Objects exist. However, UFO does not necessarily equate to alien intelligence. It simply means an object suspended in the sky was spotted and it is of an unknown origin. There are perhaps means by which we can, to a fair degree of certainty, determine what the unkown might be. But the concept of alien intelligence is certainly low on the list of objective possibilities. What we understand of the physics of the universe, would seem to deny the possiblity of alien intelligence expending the resources to travel here to mutilate cattle, show extreme interest in human sexuality, and caution us against whatever happens to be environmentally significant to the particular individual who believes they were abducted.
Well, I suppose I could ramble all night given the opportunity, but I shan't.
quote:
You call that being sensitive. Yeah right. I have had my own thoughts and research which lead to some of the things icke and many others have described, before I ever heard of him. But guess where a lot of my info comes from, college! It is amazing what you learn when you actually have an open mind. But I see that this conversation will go no where. SO let's do us both a favor and end it.No matter what evidence I present, there is no nwo, no secret societies, no global maniputlation, even thought the perps have left a trail a mile long for a long time and pretty much boasted of the things they are doing.
This is a waiste of time I am afraid. You would not be able to understand the basics, because we live in a fairy tale land where everyone loves everyone, the u.s. has the nicest best people in the world, and everything is random including mass genocides and atrocities(you figure it out) happen on a daily bases.I don't care what you think.
I'm curious, to which college do you refer? What course of study were you taking that led you to such conclusions? Which books, peer-reviewed authors, in which publications would their work appear?
Dr. Sagan (I believe it was) cautioned that an open mind was a necessary component of gaining knowledge, however that one should be wary of having such an open mind that their brains fell out.
I'm really not attempting to poke fun at you. However, it seems you've no throttle on that which you believe, when you hear it. Or is it a faux paux to accept that which science has consistantly shown again and again to be predictable and reproducable.
Actaully, having visited Japan, I would say that many of the people I met in Japan were more inclined to acting in a 'socially acceptable' manner than those here in the US. Well, at least if you lose something, you have a high expectation of having the item returned to you in Japan, or at least turned into the lost and found.
As for war, well, we'll leave that be. I'm in a rather calm mood right now, and I'd like to stay where I am. Thank you.
edited: because I should know the difference between 'know' and 'no'. Silly me. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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| Edited by - Trish on 07/12/2005 21:35:11 |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2005 : 07:40:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
If it is indeed true that people can have a malevolent intent, and that it may be possible for them to move about, and shape ultimately the course of the world without being exposed, by the massess as a whole and not just a few, then a lot of things may be possible. I am actually tring to go somewhere with this, it just depends on the guy with the nice sumerian writing name says next, and also how you respond.
Yes, it is. I wouldn't say 'malevolent', though. That's too conspiracy theory like. I'd say "to their own interests" - mostly
financial.
Its too conspiracy? There you go shutting down your thinking with one word generalizations. If you put all things into this category, people will be keep getting away with all types of crime, and generalizing it all into conspiracy will ensure they will succeed. Not any particular party, just in general right now.
But it is also dead hard to keep masses (and I'm not talking about a handful of military people - I'm talking about thousands, if not millions of people) with their mouths tightly shut. Hell, it's hard even to keep a company's employees with their mouths shut! I had to sign an incredible amount of stuff just to keep my job's affairs secret (I work with Market Intelligence - intelligence as the intelligence in CIA, only to a much lesser, lighter degree) and I have no doubt leakage still occurs, if not from me, from somebody else.
Of course it leaks out. It has leaked out all over the place. Religion controls millions, spiritually, and emotionally, and therefore physically, and it is not convincing at all. People have mouths to feed. We inevitably have become a part of a system that we need to exist, only in most people's minds, to survive, or at least we think so. Like I said, if the government is doing some bad things, how would you stop it? Do you think they could stop you first?
And yes, the Illuminati did exist. A long time ago. Weren't they extinguished? My history fails me now.
No. The Bavarian Illuminati, the group you are referring to, there leader Adam Weishept was caught and tried. This group was started in 1776, and its creed was discovered and kept in a museum in France. They used the same symbols as many other secret societies throughout the years. I have taken courses in which we researched some very powerful mystery schools, their beliefs and some of their symbols. One of these mystery schools that existed as far back as 3000 b.c., used the same symbols as THIS branch of the illuminati, Bavarian.
I will identify some of these things if need be, so don't just on me yet. I have a 1986 dictionary and a 1964 dictionary which identifies the illuminati as "...a type of sect or religious group which has knowlegde denied to regular people or non-initiates..".
Can they stop people? Yes, they can. Anyone who's read a little history knows about murders commited by governments.
Pal, maybe you're American. Maybe you've never seen a dictatorship. Neither have I, but my mother has. My father has. My uncle was named after a famous dictator. My country has seen years of dictatorship.
The government deliberately killed people to keep their mouths shut about their wrongdoings, most of them pretty mundane such as keeping arts and free expression at bay. Many a family lost their sons and daughters in it. But guess what? They were exposed and annihilated (the government, that is; the actual wrongdoers died, some by suicide, some in prison).
A vast handful of people didn't mind it, neither took action against it. We aren't talking about a city, or even a church; we're talking about a country the size of Brazil, with +100,000 people in it. The few, who were aware, overthrew the dictatorship - not once, but three times.
Can a person be stopped? Yes. But the world isn't one person; opposition isn't one person; the world is billions of people, sometimes disconnected, sometimes even unknown. People are fragile. People can be killed. Entire societies, well, that's another matter entirely. If atrocities couldn't be stopped, Hitler would have killed many more Jews, Stalin would've sent many more to the Gulag, and so on.
Want a more recent example? Fine. Chinese government stopped a writer from publishing his politically firing book. They threw him in prison to rot.
Well, guess what. The book's still there. It's circulating China, it's on the freakin' Internet for download in plenty of languages. They may have stopped the man, but the idea is alive and well. It's thriving much faster than he could've ever conceived. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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HYBRID
BANNED
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2005 : 08:38:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Trish
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
No. The Bavarian Illuminati, the group you are referring to, there leader Adam Weishept was caught and tried. This group was started in 1776, and its creed was discovered and kept in a museum in France. They used the same symbols as many other secret societies throughout the years. I have taken courses in which we researched some very powerful mystery schools, their beliefs and some of their symbols. One of these mystery schools that existed as far back as 3000 b.c., used the same symbols as THIS branch of the illuminati, Bavarian.
I will identify some of these things if need be, so don't just on me yet. I have a 1986 dictionary and a 1964 dictionary which identifies the illuminati as "...a type of sect or religious group which has knowlegde denied to regular people or non-initiates..".
If I read the definition correctly, it states that non-initiates are denied knowledge of the inner workings of a particular sect or religious group. Does this mean Christianity is a form of illuminati? One young woman with whom I work is from Persia. She had no understanding of why someone would think their car was haunted by evil spirits because the license plate number contained the digits '666'.
I'm certain that I don't know the oaths or whatnot required of one who belongs to the Eagles Lodge down the road. Does this define Eagles as Illuminati?
Hybrid, you've read more into the definition than exists. If you look, you can see where the error was made. That knowledge denied to non-initiates does not necessarily equate to a major portion of control over the world.
The same holds true for UFOs. UFOs, Unidentified Flying Objects exist. However, UFO does not necessarily equate to alien intelligence. It simply means an object suspended in the sky was spotted and it is of an unknown origin. There are perhaps means by which we can, to a fair degree of certainty, determine what the unkown might be. But the concept of alien intelligence is certainly low on the list of objective possibilities. What we understand of the physics of the universe, would seem to deny the possiblity of alien intelligence expending the resources to travel here to mutilate cattle, show extreme interest in human sexuality, and caution us against whatever happens to be environmentally significant to the particular individual who believes they were abducted.
Well, I suppose I could ramble all night given the opportunity, but I shan't.
quote:
You call that being sensitive. Yeah right. I have had my own thoughts and research which lead to some of the things icke and many others have described, before I ever heard of him. But guess where a lot of my info comes from, college! It is amazing what you learn when you actually have an open mind. But I see that this conversation will go no where. SO let's do us both a favor and end it.No matter what evidence I present, there is no nwo, no secret societies, no global maniputlation, even thought the perps have left a trail a mile long for a long time and pretty much boasted of the things they are doing.
This is a waiste of time I am afraid. You would not be able to understand the basics, because we live in a fairy tale land where everyone loves everyone, the u.s. has the nicest best people in the world, and everything is random including mass genocides and atrocities(you figure it out) happen on a daily bases.I don't care what you think.
I'm curious, to which college do you refer? What course of study were you taking that led you to such conclusions? Which books, peer-reviewed authors, in which publications would their work appear?
Dr. Sagan (I believe it was) cautioned that an open mind was a necessary component of gaining knowledge, however that one should be wary of having such an open mind that their brains fell out.
I'm really not attempting to poke fun at you. However, it seems you've no throttle on that which you believe, when you hear it. Or is it a faux paux to accept that which science has consistantly shown again and again to be predictable and reproducable.
Actaully, having visited Japan, I would say that many of the people I met in Japan were more inclined to acting in a 'socially acceptable' manner than those here in the US. Well, at least if you lose something, you have a high expectation of having the item returned to you in Japan, or at least turned into the lost and found.
As for war, well, we'll leave that be. I'm in a rather calm mood right now, and I'd like to stay where I am. Thank you.
edited: because I should know the difference between 'know' and 'no'. Silly me.
Yes, that is interesting because the heads of the christian church ARE illuminati. They use the same symbols etc. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2005 : 08:44:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
So what you are saying is that the illuminati do not exist?
YES!!!!!! The Freemason conspiracy!!!!! Take that, Kil!
The Illuminati as you soppose them to be do not exist. The Bavarian Illuminati existed 1776 - approx 1800. But lets investigate the origins of the Illuminati conspiracy.
1) The Freemasons of 1776 were largely nobles working towards societal change to a representative form of government by peaceful means.
2) The Bavarian Illuminati was founded with the intent of bringing the change about by assassinations. It was alledgedly founded by a Master Freemason.
3) The Bavarian Illuminati was hunted to extinction around 1800.
4) A Freemason named Alphonse Taft founded the Skull and Bones fraternity on the campus of Yale. (He was the grandfather of President William Howard Taft.)
5) In Cincinatti Board of Education v Minor (Ohio Supreme Court, 1872), he wrote an opinion which led to Abbington v Schempp (SCOTUS, 1963).
6) Christian fundamentalists tried joining the Freemasons and tried to insist that their version of religion should be the only ones used in Masonic rituals.
7) The fundamentalists were soundly rebuked because Freemasonry only requires a belief in God, not a specific one.
8) The Christian fundamentalist, in an attempt to discredit the Freemasons invented the NWO conspiracy basing it on the worst perceived history of the Freemasons. They have combined the Bavarian Illuminati with Skull and Bones to suggest a shadow government.
9) Underlying such accusations we find the motivating factors to be a combination of points 4 and 7.
And you call yourself a student of history. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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