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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 07/13/2005 : 15:23:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
Just as people have written about human evolution, does not make it right. the bones exist, lets move on to something else please. You can ignore them (creating your own reality, no matter what the evidence may suggest or not). Evidence of history particularly is very subjective, sorry!
If the evidence exists, we will look at it. If the bones exist, we will comment on them. If the bones these books refer to do not exist, or if the claims made by these books about the bones are inaccurate, then the only one creating their own reality will have been you and these authors.
I see that you are very quick to accuse others of being blinding by bias, but do not admit that possibility with yourself. Please, anytime someone questions your facts, do not throw accusations of bias into their faces. We need to look at the facts ourselves and see how these authors arrived at their conclusions. It appears that you trust these authors blindly and without question. We do not. If what you say is true, it can stand up to the scrutiny. It behooves you to assist in people's inquiry of these issues.
Try keeping an open mind and admit that you may have been deceived about what evidence atually exists and we'll try to do the same.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 07/13/2005 19:05:14 |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2005 : 15:49:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude...
1. Learn the quote feature. NO bolding a sentence (of your own words) inside a quote by another, as it confuses who is actually saying what.
2. Be respectfull.
3. No unevidenced claims. You must provide a source for all claims of fact.
4. Stay on topic. Evolution is a broad topic, just make sure posts deal directly with some aspect of it, or directly respond to another post.
[...]
Now, if you would be so kind, please LIST these "holes" that you mentioned. Just break them down into a simple sentence each, use the bullet feature or just make a numbered list. After each "hole", go ahead and take a paragraph and explain it in detail, providing sources for evidence (if you have any).
Over four pages of posts and not a thing yet. Lots of HYBRID babbling. Lots of us asking HYBRID to state some claims regarding his "holes". Lots of him dancing around hollering and cursing and refusing to even articulate a claim, much less provide any evidence. A whole lot of him refusing to work within the guidelines proposed in the original post. He continues to acknowledge he is prone to delusion (makes up his own reality in his mind), he is certainly inarticulate, is unable to effectively assemble or present any organized data, and he is clearly minimally informed about the subject at hand. Even given all that, one of his biggest barriers to any productive exchange of ideas is he is just barely capable of civil social interaction.
HYBRID, it is difficult to discern exactly what your position is because you have such poorly developed communication skills, but apparently you are claiming the theory of evolution doesn't hold up to scientific scrutiny. The simple fact that you -say- you have evidence to support your position doesn't make that a fact, other than in your own deluded mind. Evidence doesn't manifest itself simply because you keep crying that it exists. I shouldn't need to even mention that, but you've been told this by everyone participating in this thread, and it obviously hasn't sunk in yet.
I think you're full of shit, all noise and no substance. So far you've done a thorough job of demonstrating that to be true. Maybe the time has come for you to put up or shut up. I, for one, don't think you have what it takes to put up. I also think you're so completely full of shit that you can't turn it off, and consequently I'm pretty sure you don't have what it takes to shut up either.  |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2005 : 18:54:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
This is interesting http://evolution-facts.org/Ev-Crunch/c01a.htm http://www.nwcreation.net/evolutionism.html look at the quotes posted. http://aoltvsearch.aol.com/cat.adp?id=231355 http://www.tothesource.org/11_10_2004/11_10_2004_printer.htm just a few.
I had a look at them. The first paragraph of each of them tells me that they have no idea what they are talking about.
Your first web site has (among a lot of other stuff) this little tidbit to say:
quote:
Life evolution is founded on the twin theories of spontaneous generation and Lamarckism (the inheritance of acquired characteristics);—yet, although they remain the basis of biological evolution, both were debunked by scientists over a century ago.
Yes, spontaneous generation and Lamarckism were found to be wanting. But they do NOT remain the basis of biological evolution. This is just a straw-man. Extremely silly web site.
The second one says this nonsense:
quote:
"To assume that the sophisticated systems within the cell could have arisen by pure chance requires a tremendous amount of faith in statistical improbability."
"...the production of new information through mutation has not been demonstrated under any conceivable circumstance"
Pure nonsense. The first quote is a straw-man, the second is plainly false. Extremely silly web site.
The third (which just points you to other sites) has a site that says this:
quote:
The best argument that there is a GOD - and it often moved me deeply - is this one that he proves from generation of species: a cow always bears a cow, a horse a horse, etc. No goldfinch produces a siskin. Therefore it is necessary to conclude that there is something that directs everything thus.
Logical fallacy. Straw-man. Extremely silly web site.
I couldn't even be asked looking at the fourth one.
HYBRID, I think you need to have a good look at the sources you use. These ones are just pure nonsense. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2005 : 19:24:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Just as people have written about human evolution, does not make it right. the bones exist.
The difference is that there are (fossilized) bones found regarding human evolution. The sources you have supplied that supports the assertion there are giant human bones either (1) simply don't (2) are simply weird (such as the the one that claims that the Smithsonian Institute have been excavating Egyptian artefacts in the Grand Canyon and also dumped unusual artefacts into the Atlantic) (3) are simply weirder (such as the one that says that the giants will return and that they will have something bad in mind for mankind).
Excellent evidence you provided there. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2005 : 21:56:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Don't even worry about it, I will tell the three college I have been to to shut it all down, because you think differently. If I want answers to this kind of stuff, I'll consult them, If I want pizza, I'll consult you.The fossil record is not complete, NOT!The last statement you made was so wrong I won't even adress it. You compared the subway mosquito and other mosquito's to humans and apes, yeah okay. I obviously asked more questions than that, and your rebuttle was not justified I don't thnk.
What geological time spans, I was saying over millions of years. And the typed of leap made in the last few thousand years is unprecedented. I don't think I am going to get the type of response I am looking for. When will people quit avoiding the most important questions, and only emphasizing one or two questions of lesser importance.
I have tried to give you an opportunity to discuss this topic in a civil manner... you obviously aren't capable of doing so.
You are on your own. Blather on.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 03:12:16 [Permalink]
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Humans between 10 and 20 feet tall. They'd probably have to weigh somewhere in the neighborhood of over a quarter ton plus, average adult....
Logic tells us that populations of these would have to have had some sort of a society, as all humans and other mammals do. Such a society would have a considerable impact upon local enviornments, and therefore it would seem likely that archeological evidence would be manifest anywhere these lived. There is exactly none of these evidences to be found and it is safe to presume that none ever will. Bigfoot in the Bible, eh?
Those bones do not exist and claims of them are merely frothings from Genesis apologists trying to establish that the giants, whose name I can't spell and don't care enough to try, of that book of myths, were the real deal and therefore Genesis is literally true. Utter crap, and I have long found it remarkable that such self-proclaimed 'up right' citizens, as these apologists claim to be, have no qualms at all against spewing forth outright lies, and generally laying bullshit upon the public.
As to your sites and titles, most of them I'm already familiar with, and it brings a curious question to mind: HYBRID, are you familiar with the works and machinations of Bill Dembski? Or Dr. Behe, perhaps?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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HYBRID
BANNED
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 08:44:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawks
quote:
This is interesting http://evolution-facts.org/Ev-Crunch/c01a.htm http://www.nwcreation.net/evolutionism.html look at the quotes posted. http://aoltvsearch.aol.com/cat.adp?id=231355 http://www.tothesource.org/11_10_2004/11_10_2004_printer.htm just a few.
I had a look at them. The first paragraph of each of them tells me that they have no idea what they are talking about.
Your first web site has (among a lot of other stuff) this little tidbit to say:
quote:
Life evolution is founded on the twin theories of spontaneous generation and Lamarckism (the inheritance of acquired characteristics);—yet, although they remain the basis of biological evolution, both were debunked by scientists over a century ago.
Yes, spontaneous generation and Lamarckism were found to be wanting. But they do NOT remain the basis of biological evolution. This is just a straw-man. Extremely silly web site.
The second one says this nonsense:
quote:
"To assume that the sophisticated systems within the cell could have arisen by pure chance requires a tremendous amount of faith in statistical improbability."
"...the production of new information through mutation has not been demonstrated under any conceivable circumstance"
Pure nonsense. The first quote is a straw-man, the second is plainly false. Extremely silly web site.
The third (which just points you to other sites) has a site that says this:
quote:
The best argument that there is a GOD - and it often moved me deeply - is this one that he proves from generation of species: a cow always bears a cow, a horse a horse, etc. No goldfinch produces a siskin. Therefore it is necessary to conclude that there is something that directs everything thus.
Logical fallacy. Straw-man. Extremely silly web site.
I couldn't even be asked looking at the fourth one.
HYBRID, I think you need to have a good look at the sources you use. These ones are just pure nonsense.
Pure, nonesense? Okay i get it. It is all a matter of opinion. I thought the sites you guys posted was nonesense. Just nonesense backed by scholars. Anything else? |
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HYBRID
BANNED
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 08:47:07 [Permalink]
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[quote]Originally posted by filthy
Humans between 10 and 20 feet tall. They'd probably have to weigh somewhere in the neighborhood of over a quarter ton plus, average adult....
Logic tells us that populations of these would have to have had some sort of a society, as all humans and other mammals do. Such a society would have a considerable impact upon local enviornments, and therefore it would seem likely that archeological evidence would be manifest anywhere these lived. There is exactly none of these evidences to be found and it is safe to presume that none ever will. Bigfoot in the Bible, eh?
Those bones do not exist and claims of them are merely frothings from Genesis apologists trying to establish that the giants, whose name I can't spell and don't care enough to try, of that book of myths, were the real deal and therefore Genesis is literally true. Utter crap, and I have long found it remarkable that such self-proclaimed 'up right' citizens, as these apologists claim to be, have no qualms at all against spewing forth outright lies, and generally laying bullshit upon the public.
As to your sites and titles, most of them I'm already familiar with, and it brings a curious question to mind: HYBRID, are you familiar with the works and machinations of Bill Dembski? Or Dr. Behe, perhaps?
You know, for you guys to be skeptics, and backing so much with "fact", None of the shit you are sayinjg is convincing, not the least bit. The difference is you are saying what you back is a fact. I never said anything was a fact. And in reality, this is just not true. It's all a matter of opinion, and the "fact" you worship are just ideas with good commentary.Anything else? |
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HYBRID
BANNED
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 08:54:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
Don't even worry about it, I will tell the three college I have been to to shut it all down, because you think differently. If I want answers to this kind of stuff, I'll consult them, If I want pizza, I'll consult you.The fossil record is not complete, NOT!The last statement you made was so wrong I won't even adress it. You compared the subway mosquito and other mosquito's to humans and apes, yeah okay. I obviously asked more questions than that, and your rebuttle was not justified I don't thnk.
What geological time spans, I was saying over millions of years. And the typed of leap made in the last few thousand years is unprecedented. I don't think I am going to get the type of response I am looking for. When will people quit avoiding the most important questions, and only emphasizing one or two questions of lesser importance.
I have tried to give you an opportunity to discuss this topic in a civil manner... you obviously aren't capable of doing so.
You are on your own. Blather on.
Its about time!What is it that you could possibly tell me that the "experts" in a college could not?ANy of you. Now if I fucked professionals up with just some simple questions about evolution, that they should have been able to answer, but could not time and time again, is because its not a fact, and most of it is speculation. Just because you just keep throwing fossils at me saying look, the evidence is there, does not mean that it is. You guys have actually help to fuel the fire. Because now I know for a fact that, for the most part this is just not true. YOu could not come up with answers to the simplest problems or wholes with the theory, but instead just kept saying, here look at the fossil record. Thank you for your time, you helped to prove my point and you don't even know. And to think that no academics would be against or have alternative theories to how humans came to and have evidence to back it, or make them think that way or come forward in the first place, is just stupid, period! |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 08:54:26 [Permalink]
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Ahhh, to be young and know everything....
As entertaining as these topics of yours have been, Hybrid, I must say one thing, and I don't say this lightly. And though it will come off as insulting, I truly don't mean it as such. But you really are one of the worst debaters I have ever seen. Period. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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HYBRID
BANNED
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 09:07:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Fripp
Ahhh, to be young and know everything....
As entertaining as these topics of yours have been, Hybrid, I must say one thing, and I don't say this lightly. And though it will come off as insulting, I truly don't mean it as such. But you really are one of the worst debaters I have ever seen. Period.
That's part of the problem. I am not debating anything. And what you would call debating, in the way you think of it, is something I do not do. |
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HYBRID
BANNED
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 09:10:09 [Permalink]
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| Young and know everything? I wish i did know everything. If i did, i would not be on this site waisting time with you guys. Actually, I am not that young. At 26, I have experienced things that have made me think about things that most people in a comfortable life never have to do or experience.Growing up in poverty has negative affects, but also some positives as well. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 09:19:47 [Permalink]
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I wonder, perhaps the question of whether these ‘giants' existed is of lesser importance than that of, could they have existed. The following is well out of my field, so it must be presented as an unsupported conjecture, but perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can clear it up, one way or another.
I note that the picture of the femur drawn by the handsome gentleman in the photograph is very much to scale, as anyone who has ever seen a femur can tell at a glance. Would this bone and it's attending joints be sufficient to support a biped between 10 and 20 feet tall (let‘s split the difference and say:15 feet)? The weight of such a creature would be immense, and I should think that the bone would be of a quite larger diameter to compensate. But that's not important. What is very much in doubt is the knee and hip joints, not to mention (but I will a bit farther on) the spine.
Our hips wear out just under normal wear and tear, and our knees are very poorly designed, as any athlete will readily tell you. If we weighed as much as these fictional giants, these joints as we know them would not be sufficient to support us, even considering an increase in size. The hips would quickly deteriorate and knees would be blown out during most any strenuous, physical activity.
In spite of the vast variety of creatures that have roamed the earth for lo, these billions of years, evolution is not all that inventive. It works pretty much with whatever's laying around the shop. Thus, while our leg joints are a fine design for an ape and it's (and our) ancestors, they are not quite right for us and our vastly different means of locomotion. They would be a disaster for a giant, right out of the cradle.
Our spines are designed for a quadruped, not for a creature that supports it's weight upright, and even carries heavy loads on it's shoulders. Blown discs and wrecked vertebrae, and constant if temporary back pain are our lot in life due to this shitty set-up. A giant, unless it had an altogether different spine, would find this problem magnified. The creature would have to have a spinal arrangement similar to a ratite to be able to function at all. Which would lead to similar leg joints, and then we no longer have a human giant but a far more interesting, zoological oddity worthy of any medieval sea story of the beasts of unknown lands.
So.... Anyone?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HYBRID
BANNED
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 09:26:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
I wonder, perhaps the question of whether these ‘giants' existed is of lesser importance than that of, could they have existed. The following is well out of my field, so it must be presented as an unsupported conjecture, but perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can clear it up, one way or another.
I note that the picture of the femur drawn by the handsome gentleman in the photograph is very much to scale, as anyone who has ever seen a femur can tell at a glance. Would this bone and it's attending joints be sufficient to support a biped between 10 and 20 feet tall (let‘s split the difference and say:15 feet)? The weight of such a creature would be immense, and I should think that the bone would be of a quite larger diameter to compensate. But that's not important. What is very much in doubt is the knee and hip joints, not to mention (but I will a bit farther on) the spine.
Our hips wear out just under normal wear and tear, and our knees are very poorly designed, as any athlete will readily tell you. If we weighed as much as these fictional giants, these joints as we know them would not be sufficient to support us, even considering an increase in size. The hips would quickly deteriorate and knees would be blown out during most any strenuous, physical activity.
In spite of the vast variety of creatures that have roamed the earth for lo, these billions of years, evolution is not all that inventive. It works pretty much with whatever's laying around the shop. Thus, while our leg joints are a fine design for an ape and it's (and our) ancestors, they are not quite right for us and our vastly different means of locomotion. They would be a disaster for a giant, right out of the cradle.
Our spines are designed for a quadruped, not for a creature that supports it's weight upright, and even carries heavy loads on it's shoulders. Blown discs and wrecked vertebrae, and constant if temporary back pain are our lot in life due to this shitty set-up. A giant, unless it had an altogether different spine, would find this problem magnified. The creature would have to have a spinal arrangement similar to a ratite to be able to function at all. Which would lead to similar leg joints, and then we no longer have a human giant but a far more interesting, zoological oddity worthy of any medieval sea story of the beasts of unknown lands.
So.... Anyone?
I think that this is an assumotion. Since we can't, or science won't, look at these things in depth we can't know for sure. But to rule it out with what we think we know about modern humans, really can't be applied in this scenario. There were creatures that were hominids that existed that were at least 10 to 14 ft tall. What about there bone structure? Would they have been so tall if this were true? Furthermore, the way we think about bone structure was decided upon without the inclusion of these types of anamolies, so we cannot say for sure, what can't or cannot be yet, on these subjects.Was that 'wild' enough for you guys? |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 09:30:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
You know, for you guys to be skeptics, and backing so much with "fact", None of the shit you are sayinjg is convincing, not the least bit. The difference is you are saying what you back is a fact. I never said anything was a fact. And in reality, this is just not true. It's all a matter of opinion, and the "fact" you worship are just ideas with good commentary.Anything else?
Can anyone say: "Crawfish?"
quote:
Young and know everything? I wish i did know everything. If i did, i would not be on this site waisting time with you guys. Actually, I am not that young. At 26, I have experienced things that have made me think about things that most people in a comfortable life never have to do or experience.Growing up in poverty has negative affects, but also some positives as well.
Sonny, you are a pipsqueak. When you have seen the elephant and heard the owl call, and know why, Then I'll give your words some weight.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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