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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
 Posted - 08/02/2005 : 09:35:43 [Permalink]
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Hawks wrote: "Isn't it a bit tight to require a 12-year-old to understand the impossibility of proving negatives? Heck, most adults probably can't grasp the concept."
I think you are sorely underestimating 12-year-olds. This kid certainly understood the concept. (Though I'll admit, she was way brighter than most adults I've met.) But Camp Quest is for kids 8-17 years old, and certainly a teenager can grasp the concept if they try hard enough. I think one of the reasons so many adults don't grasp the concept is because they aren't exposed to it as kids. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2005 : 10:08:18 [Permalink]
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I just thought that I'd point out that you can prove negative statements. "The cat is not in the box." is an example of a negative statement that is easy to prove.
The statement, "The toothfairy does not exist." is impossible to prove because it is a universal statement, not because it is a negative statement. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2005 : 21:27:54 [Permalink]
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It's not just because it's universal, but because it's negative and makes claims about something metaphysical.
You know, for the humor section, this thread isn't very funny. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 08/03/2005 21:28:40 |
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2005 : 21:42:23 [Permalink]
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Why pick on the tooth fairy in particular?
Is it easier to prove he/she doesn't exist than other types of fairies?
Maybe that's why Mr. Filthy hasn't got enough $$$.
He still has all his teeth. |
"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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woolytoad
Skeptic Friend
313 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2005 : 05:39:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dry_vby
Why pick on the tooth fairy in particular?
Is it easier to prove he/she doesn't exist than other types of fairies?
Maybe that's why Mr. Filthy hasn't got enough $$$.
He still has all his teeth.
Alas, would that it were true. Or better still, bid hale and farwell to the final, wretched remainder of them, and get a nice set of phony ones that, when they start looking a little funky, I can take out, rinse off the tobacco juice, put 'em back and keep on a'chompin' them chittlin's.
But why not the tooth fairy? It looks to me as a good enough candidate for a discussion on myths used to give small children a treat. And fairies have a long and rich history in our myths. Many adults have taken them as actual creatures, some of them quite prominant. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, for example, was a firm believer in the mataphysical and was pulled in, hook, line, sinker and fishing rod up to the elbow by the Cottingley Fairies; a crude hoax pulled off by a couple of school girls who were ultimatly banned from borrowing the camera, the little snots.
Fairy myths of sorts remain with us today -- angels, demons, and bigfoots, eh? And in some undeveloped countries, variations on them are take quite seriously.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2005 : 14:13:04 [Permalink]
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To straighten up the "you can't prove a negative" issue:
http://www.graveyardofthegods.net/articles/cantprovenegative.html
But in short, the problem with falsifying the tooth fairy is that first we have to define what are the properties of the tooth fairy. And since those properties are vague and metaphysical, in terms of science, we're talking nonsense.
Which is probably why this is in the humor section. Tee hee.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 08/04/2005 14:26:13 |
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2005 : 15:24:03 [Permalink]
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At the very least, you have to concede that the tooth fairy displays a generosity and a certain laisezz-fair attitude that other stingy fairies don't have, real or not.
In a capatalist society my vote goes for the tooth fairy.
He/she may give away less than Santa Claus but he/she works all year 'round. |
"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2005 : 16:25:05 [Permalink]
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| When, as a kid, I lost one of my teeth, I put it in a glass of water (maybe that's just the way swedish tooth-fairies want them) in the kitchen. I waited and waited for that tooth to be replaced by a coin. I stared and I stared. After a while I could see a bubble forming on the tooth, and I was convinced that this was the start of a process that would actually transform the tooth into real currency. Alas, I was stung by a wasp just as I was witnessing this. Some things I learned from this: 1) Teeth won't turn ito coins if you look. 2) The tooth-fairy can get impatient if not left alone to perform her(?) duties anonymously. 3) The tooth-fairy is evil. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2005 : 16:34:47 [Permalink]
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Do you think that the tooth fairy somehow was in cahoots with the wasp, or even controlling it.
Wow, maybe this should be moved to the conspiracy folder. |
"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2005 : 17:03:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Do you think that the tooth fairy somehow was in cahoots with the wasp, or even controlling it.
No, but they share common ancestry. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2005 : 18:19:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawks
quote:
Do you think that the tooth fairy somehow was in cahoots with the wasp, or even controlling it.
No, but they share common ancestry.
I humbly ask for an explination.
I feel we are now moving into some kinda evolution question here.
Next you'll be saying that the tooth fairy is an alien who collects teeth so as to mess with human DNA.
Hey, maybe I'm onto something here.
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"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2005 : 19:04:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
I feel we are now moving into some kinda evolution question here.
Nah. Too big a topic, as it would have to include not only paper wasps and hornets, but solitary wasps, trantula hawks and other parasitic species, ichnumons, sawflies, tiger ants, and much more including real ants. Fascinating of course, but it covers a lot of territory.
I think that the tooth fairy is in cahoots with, not wasps, but cockroachs. After all, both scurry about in the dark....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2005 : 20:19:28 [Permalink]
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| You know, I am the tooth fairy. Don't get much call for it around my house anymore, but I assure you, I am the tooth fairy. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2005 : 20:24:21 [Permalink]
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Yay!!!!!
Then you can answer my questiom.
What do you do with all them teeth?
(.....and why did you sick that wasp onto Hawks?) |
"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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