|
|
|
|
Abdul Alhazred
Skeptic Friend
USA
58 Posts |
 Posted - 08/24/2005 : 01:49:26
|
The Green Child by Herbert Read. A novel.
Anybody else here who has read it? I'd like to discuss it.
Nobody else on any of my other forums seems to have heard of it.
Herbert Read is mostly known as a left wing journalist and was a friend of George Orwell.
[Edited to add book link - Dave W.]
|
The lack of a rational explanation is not evidence for an irrational explanation. |
|
|
the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2005 : 14:09:52 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred
The Green Child by Herbert Read. A novel.
Anybody else here who has read it? I'd like to discuss it.
Nobody else on any of my other forums seems to have heard of it.
Herbert Read is mostly known as a left wing journalist and was a friend of George Orwell.
Can't say as I have...is it any good? |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
 |
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2005 : 16:48:56 [Permalink]
|
Is this the same Herbert Read who wrote a ton of books about art, including "The Meaning of Art", "A Concise History of Modern Painting" and "To Hell With Culture"? If so, I'd love to read his novel, because I truly enjoy his nonfiction, especially that last title I listed.
One of my favorite passages from "To Hell With Culture":
This is an acute analysis in so far as it recognizes that one voice is of the deep--that is to say, comes from the unconscious; and the other is objective, directed to the outer world. The normal person stills the voice of the deep, orientates himself to the outer world, becomes a good mixer, a conservative in politics and a reactionary in art. The psychotic person surrenders to his subjective self, shuns society, is suspicious of his fellow-workers, is sexually morbid and philosophically pessimistic or nihilistic. But a few rare people are conscious of both tendencies within the self, and can hold them in a precarious balance. It is a view I have long held that most great art and literature proceeds from this condition of precarious mental equilibrium--the great artist is a tight-rope walker. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
| Edited by - marfknox on 08/30/2005 16:50:17 |
|
|
|
H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2005 : 17:23:22 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Is this the same Herbert Read who wrote a ton of books about art, including "The Meaning of Art", "A Concise History of Modern Painting" and "To Hell With Culture"?
Yup. Same guy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Read
|
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 00:11:24 [Permalink]
|
| I have ordered the book, and will post my responses to it here after I finish reading it. Since it is by Herbert Read, I imagine it won't take me long to read. At least in terms of his nonfiction, he is one of my favorite authors. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
|
|
|
Abdul Alhazred
Skeptic Friend
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 03:39:13 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
I have ordered the book, and will post my responses to it here after I finish reading it. Since it is by Herbert Read, I imagine it won't take me long to read. At least in terms of his nonfiction, he is one of my favorite authors.
It's not a long one.
Since you haven't read it yet, I'll omit discussion for now.
|
The lack of a rational explanation is not evidence for an irrational explanation. |
|
|
|
Abdul Alhazred
Skeptic Friend
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 14:26:04 [Permalink]
|
Read it yet?
C'mon talk to me. |
The lack of a rational explanation is not evidence for an irrational explanation. |
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 16:14:24 [Permalink]
|
I haven't forgotten - but the book hasn't even arrived yet. And I ordered it, like, two weeks ago. Tell ya what, I'll post here when it arrives and then read it ASAP.
|
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2005 : 14:40:20 [Permalink]
|
| To my SHOCK I finally recieved "The Green Child" in the mail today. I will read it over the weekend and write a reponse here by Monday evening. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
|
|
|
Abdul Alhazred
Skeptic Friend
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 16:24:26 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
To my SHOCK I finally recieved "The Green Child" in the mail today. I will read it over the weekend and write a reponse here by Monday evening.
See you then.  |
The lack of a rational explanation is not evidence for an irrational explanation. |
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 20:36:30 [Permalink]
|
Well, I'm not sure what you want to discuss, so I'll just give a few general comments to start off.
I keep reading that this novel is allegorical, but I can't find what it is allegorical of. Now I just now finished reading it, so I haven't had time to analyze it. Also, it was written in 1939 by a Brit, so I can't hope to truly understand the society and mindset it comes out of. So I don't know what the fantasy elements (the green people, the crystals) are supposed to symbolize. My analysis is going to be a little more pedestrian I suppose.
This book seems all about Olivero seeking intellectual satisfaction. He leaves home because his ideas about childhood innocence are shattered by Kneeshaw – who he ironically kills 30 years later. I imagine he left not because he was afraid of the malicious boy, but because with the realization that maliciousness is natural, he felt compelled to go out into the world and be a part of things he had previously only read about.
Olivero further encounters maliciousness in the form of political oppression in Spain, where he is imprisoned unjustly for years. Ironically, the imprisonment only turns him into an actual liberal activist (I'm sure by that Read was commenting on the inherent folly of oppression) and he goes off to South America to help destroy a dictatorship and establish a free, socialistic, and secure state. Olivero's boredom while he's rular is I think where Read's anarchism comes through. None of the revolutionaries who assassinate the dictator are seeking glory or power for themselves. They all genuinely want to make the state work for the peasants. So they truly are public servants. The problem with that is that these men of great thinking will not be satisfied running such a state. That's why they all keep passing the buck and Olivero gets stuck with it for 25 dull years, and then even he finally goes to the lengths of staging his own fake assassination. In reality, few men are like Santos and Olivero, and the other good men of this novel's revolution. In reality, most rulers – in their boredom and desire for power and glory – will do things that are bad for the people.
So Olivero goes back to his home town, I suppose feeling nostalgic in his later years. Kneeshaw was an interesting character because he's the antithesis of Olivero. Olivero is giving and compassionate, while Kneeshaw mostly just thinks of his own desires. And Olivero is transfixed by ideas, while Kneeshaw simply reacts.
The third part is certainly the most bizarre and tough to try to understand. Personally I found the green peoples' utopia a little creepy and mind-numbingly dull. And I found their obsession with the unconscious material body silly. Though I'm not sure if Read means their world to seem creepy and dull or if it is a genuine utopia simply in symbolic form and I don't get the symbolism.
While I acknowledge the merit of this work of literature, I didn't thoroughly enjoy it as a novel beyond the first part. Everything after part one was mostly straight narrative with some light political and philosophical theorizing, and while I would have found that entertaining when I was 21 and still finding myself, so to speak, this sort of book doesn't hold my interests anymore. I'm glad I read it ‘cause it was by Read and I love Read's nonfiction so very much.
|
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
| Edited by - marfknox on 10/10/2005 20:41:05 |
|
|
|
Abdul Alhazred
Skeptic Friend
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2005 : 10:32:52 [Permalink]
|
Good analysis.
I see it as a tale of three utopias. The "good old days", the political utopia in Roncador, and the philosophical utopia of the Green Child's world.
And none of them work.
The movie Moon Over Parador recycled the accidental dictator theme, but played it for laughs. |
The lack of a rational explanation is not evidence for an irrational explanation. |
|
|
|
 |
|
Topic Locked
