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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
 Posted - 08/25/2005 : 00:04:16
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From Arizona Daily Star:quote:
On Tuesday, though, he[McCain] sided with the president on two issues that have made headlines recently: teaching intelligent design in schools and Cindy Sheehan, the grieving mother who has come to personify the anti-war movement.
McCain told the Star that, like Bush, he believes "all points of view" should be available to students studying the origins of mankind.
So who will be the GOP candidate 2008?
This scientifically illiterate prostitute or maybe Rudy "Blame the troops" Giuliani?
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 00:41:56 [Permalink]
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Ah, don't forget "I'm such a good doctor I can re-diagnose a brain-dead woman by watching 30 minutes of videotape" Frist. Who, of course, also believes children should not be sheltered from "controvesy" in their biology classrooms. Many saw his flip-flop change of position on embryonic stem cell research as a first move toward a more centrist position for the next presidential election.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 08/25/2005 00:52:56 |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 05:57:23 [Permalink]
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I have always respected Mcain it pains me to see him make a fool out of himself. All POINTS OF VIEW should be taught?!?! Evolution has been demoted to a fucking pont of view.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 06:54:11 [Permalink]
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All points of view should be taught, eh?
Okey dokey then, lets also expand the biology classes to cover the various aboriginal creation myths, the Raelian take on it, and make Chariots of the Gods required reading.
Fucking idiots...
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 09:54:50 [Permalink]
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The funny thing is, they don't really mean what they say. They don't want "all points of view" taught to anyone. They just want to insert their ridiculous christian creation myth into science classes.
They'd shit a jihad if anyone suggested teaching Vedic science and the Hindu "theory" of origins in public school science classrooms.
All that aside...
These idiots really don't have a clue. ID, if you grant it status as a theory (I do not, but just using this to illustrate a point), is not a competing theory with the ToE. It would be an abiogenesis "theory".
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 10:43:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
The funny thing is, they don't really mean what they say. They don't want "all points of view" taught to anyone. They just want to insert their ridiculous christian creation myth into science classes.
They'd shit a jihad if anyone suggested teaching Vedic science and the Hindu "theory" of origins in public school science classrooms.
All that aside...
These idiots really don't have a clue. ID, if you grant it status as a theory (I do not, but just using this to illustrate a point), is not a competing theory with the ToE. It would be an abiogenesis "theory".
Indeed. ID is no more than an unsupported conjecture; not even an hypothesis and certainly not any sort of a scientific theory.
As I have stated in the past, any high school science teacher worth his/her paycheck could leave it in bleeding chunks on the classroom floor, and wouldn't take very long to do it.
I think that ultimatly, in the scolastic shitcan is where it will end up.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 10:46:06 [Permalink]
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Edit: screwed it up and did a double.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 08/25/2005 11:02:30 |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 14:40:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
As far as I knew, ID "explains" how biological life got to it's current state. Wouldn't that be in direct competition with the ToE?
Why not? An intelligent designer might add a few genes here and there with the purpose of "directing" evolution. Much like life does anyway without any designer, funnily enough. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 16:43:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Well, that is one take. Another is that a designer designed all life in it's current form or a form like it (one of it's "kinds").
As the Kansas hearings in May demonstrated, there are plenty of IDCists who deny common descent. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 19:06:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
As far as I knew, ID "explains" how biological life got to it's current state. Wouldn't that be in direct competition with the ToE?
Evolution- change over time, descent with modification, etc...
ID- special creation.
Evolution does not make any statement about the origin of life. ID does, it claims that life was designed.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 20:46:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Evolution does not make any statement about the origin of life. ID does, it claims that life was designed.
Yet it does not claim that everthing was created de novo. A designer might, for example, have created flagellum and made some bacteria express them. That would be in competition with ToE. Oh, how one can speculate what the wonderful designer did or did not do. ZZZZZZZZZZZZ (grandpa Simpson) |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 21:38:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Yet it does not claim that everthing was created de novo.
With regard to life, yes it does.
One of the main arguments of ID is their (fallacious arguments I should add) claim that life is to complex to have arisen via a combination of natural rules and proper circumstances. (complex specified information, as one IDist calls it)
Therefore, life was created (or designed). And if you follow this argument to its only possible conclusion, the only possible original creator is a supernatural one, since life cannot arise within the universe on its own.
Evolution, on the other hand, is concerned with how species change over time. It does not, to my knowledge, address abiogenesis.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 23:48:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Well, that is one take. Another is that a designer designed all life in it's current form or a form like it (one of it's "kinds").
As the Kansas hearings in May demonstrated, there are plenty of IDCists who deny common descent.
That't the beauty of ID. God..ehr.. Someone did it!
How, when and why is not included, as long as you are ready put your faith in "Someone didit!" you are welcome to ignore as much facts as you like. |
"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2005 : 04:29:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
All points of view should be taught, eh?
Not to mention the creation point of view that has been gaining in popularity over the past few months. A point of view that was expertly expressed in an Open Letter to the members of the Kansas Board of Education.
http://www.venganza.org/index.htm
My apologies if you have already seen this more than a dozen times. But it is an important idea and needs repeating.
edited: how did I miss that... |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
| Edited by - moakley on 08/26/2005 04:32:47 |
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