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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 09/09/2005 : 15:26:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by St. Michael
Thanks for the explanation. Actually I didnt hear it from coast to coast, I heard about them from doing research into the boogeyman; sounds like the same thing to me.
No problem.
And I would encourage you to post your report on the boogeyman here after you finish your research. I'd be interested to see what you come up with.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2005 : 16:48:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal...
One need merely look at how our brains interpret input to understand such events. Whatever stimuli reach the brain, the brain interprets it in light of all the past things the brain has encountered. So, for example, if you can't quite see enough of something to tell what it is, on many occasions, your brain will interpret it anyway and fill in the missing data.
This is one of the underlying psychological secrets to many magicians' tricks. When people see a magic trick they'll ask, "How did he do it?" Their first guess often goes to threads, mirrors, and other mechanical contrivances, but taking subtle advantage of the way the mind works is actually the most powerful tool in a magician's arsenal.
We call this process of filling in the blanks "association". Each experience we have gets filed away in a variety of "folders" in our brains. The next time we encounter input that matches any of the stored criteria we tend to associate the new experience with the entire data set from our previous experience.
As an example, when we see a familiar object like a pencil we don't consciously go through a list in our mind of its physical properties. We don't run the check list of solid, about this heavy, wood, so long, sort of round, graphite inside, etc. We simply open the pencil "folder" in our brain and subconsciously associate all those properties to the pencil in a single take. So a magician might have a specially made pencil, one that actually has properties different from the norm. He can use that gimmick with some confidence that it will be completely overlooked by most spectators.
Association is a speedy way to process the stimuli in our environment. It is probably an evolutionary adaptation for simple efficiency. We couldn't possibly consider all the criteria for each object we see every time we see it. The mental burden would be overwhelming and our reaction time would be that of a sloth. But, in our adapting to increase the efficiency of processing input, we also have to make some sacrifices in accuracy. Sometimes those sacrifices will manifest, as beskeptigal and others have suggested, in making an inaccurate assessment of some stimuli.
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2005 : 19:19:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Sounds a lot like a SEP field.
One thing wiki fails to mention is that you can only see a SEP field if you catch a small glimps out of the corner of your eye.
LOL Damn it. That's the first thing that I though of and Ricky beat me to it. I need to read the forums more often. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2005 : 19:26:59 [Permalink]
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(Sorry, moakly, this wasn't directed at you, it was a reply to GeeMack's previous post.
You slipped in there to quickly for me .)
Absolutely.
However, on top of that we have to overlay the working condition of the system being employed.
The mental condition of the observer and their capacity to inturpret stimulii correctly MUST also come into play.
If the structure used to quantify data is faulty, then no observation made from that data can be fully trusted.
And if the system is faulty, would the system have the capacity to recognise that, given that it was faulty?
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"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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| Edited by - Dry_vby on 09/09/2005 19:32:51 |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2005 : 20:32:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
As Dave once said, you aren't a true skeptic unless you hit the "Active Topics" link every 15 minutes.
No, I said that you're not a real SFN member unless you click "Active Topics" every 15 minutes. I acknowledge the fact that some true skeptics have other things to do than check on conversations here (not necessarily better things to do, just other things to do). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2005 : 06:10:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Sounds a lot like a SEP field.
One thing wiki fails to mention is that you can only see a SEP field if you catch a small glimps out of the corner of your eye.
LOL Damn it. That's the first thing that I though of and Ricky beat me to it. I need to read the forums more often.
As Dave once said, you aren't a true skeptic unless you hit the "Active Topics" link every 15 minutes.
Or just leave it open reloading over and over and over in a tab of your Firefox... |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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St. Michael
New Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2005 : 14:44:33 [Permalink]
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| When I'm done researching, I have to do a paper at school on unusual phenomenom and the paranormal, I'll post what I found. So far, I found out the boogey man is pretty much a worldwide thing, a black shadowy figure who is said to stalk children who don't behave good for their parents. Probably explains why on some "websites" it says that children "report" seeing shadow people; their parents tell them that they exist, so they see them. LOL! |
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2005 : 15:24:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by St. Michael
When I'm done researching, I have to do a paper at school on unusual phenomenom and the paranormal, I'll post what I found. So far, I found out the boogey man is pretty much a worldwide thing, a black shadowy figure who is said to stalk children who don't behave good for their parents. Probably explains why on some "websites" it says that children "report" seeing shadow people; their parents tell them that they exist, so they see them. LOL!
So, the boogey man is a control mechanism, not dissimilar to God as a concept in that regard?
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"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2005 : 15:49:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by St. Michael...
So far, I found out the boogey man is pretty much a worldwide thing, a black shadowy figure who is said to stalk children who don't behave good for their parents.
boˇgeyˇman n. : An imaginary monster used to frighten children.
There are many examples of bogeymen. Usually we think of him being used specifically to control children by inflicting fear of punishment. With most bogeymen, at some point along our young lives, we outgrow the fear. We discover, or learn, or simply become rational and understand that it only exists in our imaginations. And they aren't all black. Some of them have jolly smiles and wear a red hat.quote:
Lyrics from a popular children's song...
He sees you when you're sleeping. He knows when you're awake. He knows if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake.
You better watch out. You better not cry. You better not pout. I'm telling you why. Santa Claus is coming to town.
Parents usually eventually tell their children there's no such thing as Santa. But, as irrational as it sounds, some people drag the fear of their bogeyman into their adulthood. Some people even attempt to inflict that permanent fear on their own children. Some full grown adults truly believe in the bogeyman and therefore have no intent of ever informing their children that it's just a delusion.quote:
Originally posted by a participant in another thread...
Gods perfect justice demands a punishment for our sins. That is why there is a hell. Gods perfect love for us made a way for us to be forgiven of our sins and not have to serve our punishment. We are not going to hell because we don't worship him, we are going to hell because we must be punished for our sins.
Then there are times long after we may have discarded our belief in the bogeyman, grown up, become rational, when someone (or some organization) re-inserts the bogeyman back into our lives. Those of us prone to being controlled by fear renew our belief in the bogeyman. Some bogeymen wear turbans.quote:
Regularly invoked by the US government...
Terrorists! WMD!
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2005 : 22:57:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
I've seen a few. They are usually just on the edge of perception. They are also optical illusions and sometimes are floaters on the edge of perception. Floaters in this case are protien blobs or remnants of blood vessles which atrophied and are floating in the fluid within your eye. It explains why you can't dart around and see them.
And floaters make it damned difficult to use biocular microscopes in lab.
quote:
Originally posted by GeeMack
Parents usually eventually tell their children there's no such thing as Santa. But, as irrational as it sounds, some people drag the fear of their bogeyman into their adulthood. Some people even attempt to inflict that permanent fear on their own children. Some full grown adults truly believe in the bogeyman and therefore have no intent of ever informing their children that it's just a delusion.
And, fortunately, some children figure out for themselves that Santa can't be real despite all the hype.
By the way, welcome St. Michael. Hadn't heard of shadow people before this, but had always dismissed the phenomena as my mind attempting to give shape to distorted information. Considering that our periferal vision is best for registering motion/light/dark as a warning system, rather than registering coherent images. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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St. Michael
New Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 20:00:51 [Permalink]
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| Sorry to keep beating the dead horse, but I was looking around the net and found several stories, and a few "photos", of people fully witnessing shadow people; they describe what they look like. Are people serious or are they just trying to go with the crowd? |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 20:19:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by St. Michael
Sorry to keep beating the dead horse, but I was looking around the net and found several stories, and a few "photos", of people fully witnessing shadow people; they describe what they look like. Are people serious or are they just trying to go with the crowd?
It's a little bit of both. You have people who already believe in ghosts or the occult or whatever. They hear stories of "shadow people" and find it intriguing. Unlike ghosts sightings, which usually only occur at a haunted locale and can sometimes be spaced out over decades, shadow people can simply happen to anyone at any time.
Now, you must understand, people who "see" shadow people already have it in their heads that they would like to see one (or they believe in them and are afraid they might see one). Then late one night they catch a glimpse of something and *boom*, instantly they are special. They've gotten a glimpse into another realm! They have a personal story they can share with others. It's evidence in their minds that all these stories are true. It lends support to their preconceived beliefs.
So they immediately set out to share their experience, which is eaten up enthusiastically by the faithful. They embelish it some, maybe even unconsciously. Each time they tell the tale the thing they saw appears more and more clear in their mind's eye. They begin to draw eerie figures of what they now have no doubt they saw. Other people hear these stories and wonder if one day they might see a shadow figure...
And the process repeats itself. Take note of how few people actually go out and look for a rational explanation of what they saw. They already have it in their head what it is--time traveler, demon, whatever they've decided on--all that was left was to actually see one.
It's a classic example of people seeing what they expect to see.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 09/22/2005 21:56:38 |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 20:32:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by St. Michael
Sorry to keep beating the dead horse, but I was looking around the net and found several stories, and a few "photos", of people fully witnessing shadow people; they describe what they look like. Are people serious or are they just trying to go with the crowd?
I think H. Humbert sums it up quite well with the notion of preconceived beliefs. What in all likelihood has been the same phenomena has been described as witches, ghosts or aliens depending on the time/place in history the observation was made. Had "shadow people" been trendy at the time, these phenomena would probably have been attributed to this. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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