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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 11/05/2005 : 12:30:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by markie
Hey, I predicted earlier in this thread that a home heater would be the first product ;)
And I predict that in four years this home heater will still be four years away from market.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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markie
Skeptic Friend
Canada
356 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2005 : 15:07:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by markie
Hey, I predicted earlier in this thread that a home heater would be the first product ;)
And I predict that in four years this home heater will still be four years away from market.
HH, are you possibly inferring that it will never happen ? 
I find this quote intriquing: quote:
And he [Mills] claims to be just months away from unveiling his creation.
So "just months" from unveiling a prototype. But how *many* months? :)
Really though, the expected "due diligence" performed by investor companies should give some reason to suspect a good outcome.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2005 : 22:42:59 [Permalink]
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Six years ago, markie:Conectiv senior vice president David Blake concurs: "We're past the scientific verification stage. The talk now is about commercial applications," perhaps within seven years, he says. Blake sits on the BlackLight Power board of directors. And you wrote:quote:
Really though, the expected "due diligence" performed by investor companies should give some reason to suspect a good outcome.
"Due diligence" is required when purchasing another company, it isn't required when investing. But regardless of that, the vast majority of power companies have not invested in BlackLight Power. What does that tell you? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Patrick Hennessey
New Member
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2005 : 03:38:39 [Permalink]
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| If the experiment works, the experiment works. Whether or not his theory for why it works is accurate...is entirely irrelevant. Strange experimental results never before seen does not automatically make the scientist a "crackpot". to say such a thing puts you far below a reasonable skeptic, pushing you closer to idiot. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2005 : 03:43:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by markie
HH, are you possibly inferring that it will never happen ?
I'm saying he's a fraud.
But I'll make a further prediction. If Blacklight ever does get a heater to market, I predict it will still be required to be plugged into an outlet in order to operate. It will be marketed with the claim that it runs at a substantially lower amount of electricity than conventional heaters, resulting in "huge savings" for the consumer. And I predict that independant testing will fail to support the company's claim.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 11/08/2005 03:54:01 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2005 : 03:51:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Hennessey
If the experiment works, the experiment works. Whether or not his theory for why it works is accurate...is entirely irrelevant. Strange experimental results never before seen does not automatically make the scientist a "crackpot". to say such a thing puts you far below a reasonable skeptic, pushing you closer to idiot.
No, but to think no one before him has ever attempted a "classical" approach to atomic physics is retarded. Why do you think physicists ever bothered to work out quantum mechanics in the first place if what they already had was perfectly useful?
When Blacklight brings a product to market and/or a sizeable number of credible scientists replicates Mills' results in independent labs, then, and only then, should a reasonable person conclude Mills has actually accomplished what he claims.
And welcome to the SFN.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 11/08/2005 03:53:25 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2005 : 21:25:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Hennessey
If the experiment works, the experiment works.
And until an independent researcher is able to duplicate the amount of "extra heat" claimed by Mills, nobody will know whether it "works" or not.quote:
Whether or not his theory for why it works is accurate...is entirely irrelevant.
Hardly. A faulty theory tells us that we should ask for much more experimentation before agreeing that there is an effect at all. Mills' theory, after all, is supposed to explain his results. If the theory has faults, then any experiment which agrees with that theory is doubly suspect.quote:
Strange experimental results never before seen does not automatically make the scientist a "crackpot".
Which is why nobody here is doing so. The reason he's being called a crackpot is because he acts like the thousands of other crackpots that came before him. Attempting to overturn decades of solid work is no small task; to claim that you've done so, when nobody can replicate your results precisely and everyone can find flaws in your ideas, all the while marketing your non-existent products, all adds up to "nutcase" as even an armchair science historian can tell you. The professional historians won't bother, since to them it's so self-evident that anyone who lends Mills any credence needs to have his/her head examined.quote:
to say such a thing puts you far below a reasonable skeptic, pushing you closer to idiot.
Right back atcha. Welcome to the SFN. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2005 : 21:48:01 [Permalink]
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| I thought the link from 2002 suggested reproducible and interesting results, but the question of why I can't find something along those lines more recent is one reason I'm leery of this... it doesn't make sense. If things are to a point where commercial applications are now possible, then the verification stage is over and there should be readily available data supporting the theory, or a few "hypothesis" at least. I think skepticism is still well-justified. |
Ron White |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2005 : 22:27:02 [Permalink]
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Ron, as far as I've seen, the interesting results are only reproducible when the experimenters are supporters of Mills (or Mills himself).
Also, back in 1999 one of Mills' supporters said, in that Village Voice article, that the verification stage was over and all they were doing was looking at applications. What did he say, again?Conectiv senior vice president David Blake concurs: "We're past the scientific verification stage. The talk now is about commercial applications," perhaps within seven years, he says. Blake sits on the BlackLight Power board of directors. Yet all I've seen in the articles authored by Mills since then is verification, verification, verification. In June, 2005, he's still going on about results "consistent" with his theory, and not (at least not on the web site) any substantive bulk power-generation papers. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2005 : 22:54:48 [Permalink]
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Hmmmm... reviewing the facts thus far...
1. Interesting if not amazing claim, testable using equipment etc. which is neither particularly uncommon, nor expensive.
2. Reproducible results- so long as one asks him, or his buddies... otherwise, most mainstream scientists in the relevant field (quantum physics) say "Don't bother."
3. Wants investors.
4. Somewhere, I heard words "Harvard Medical School."
Why is my skepticism-level climbing? |
Ron White |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2005 : 00:24:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite
2. Reproducible results- so long as one asks him, or his buddies... otherwise, most mainstream scientists in the relevant field (quantum physics) say "Don't bother."
Oh, more than "don't bother." If you look back to page 3, I posted a link to some independent researchers who did try to reproduce Mills' experiment. They failed to get anywhere near the energy returns he claims. In fact, they didn't get any.
quote:
Why is my skepticism-level climbing?
Climbing? It should be through the roof.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2005 : 01:39:42 [Permalink]
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Thanks 4 the links, matt. I was impressed with the Marchese NASA report, but reassessing all of this, well, "It don't look good."
[joke-mode]
Having opened my big mouth, I guess I should suggest a couple of "theories" to account for the "theory."
(theory 1)
The NASA-funded report actually wasn't by one of Mils' buddies, but rather, initially having read Mils' "patial quantum state" theories, the guy thought Mils was a lunatic who belonged safely-secured in a straight jacket and packed-away in a rubber room, but having been confronted with inescapable and irrefutable experimental evidence supporting BlackLight energy production, he thereafter concluded that Mils' trip to Stockholm to pick up his Nobel had been unfairly diverted, and he faithfully and dilligently executed the experiments others have failed to properly perform, demonstating the validity of Mils' theoretical principles.
(theory 2)
Mils is a card-counting poker fiend with the most devious bluff North of Las Vegas, and employs the intricate surgical skills he gained at Harvard Medical School to inconspicuously shuffle aces and kings in-and-out of sleeves, pockets, hats, and socks, leaving a mere NASA-funded researcher (who can't resist a high-stakes card game) cannon-fodder in the face of his evil methodologies. For lack of the 100K Mils had taken him for, in light of Mils' demands for the cash to support his lavish lifestyle... I mean, uh, BlackLight Power research efforts... he agreed to assist by doing some reproducibility studies himself after getting NASA to foot 75K of the bill, with the other 25K to be applied towards taking the greatest care to ensure desireable... I mean, uh, aaccurate... data and results are attained.
[/joke-mode] |
Ron White |
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