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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 11/01/2005 : 21:58:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by markie
I suspect that the evolutionary outfolding programming is embedded in very critical gene areas so that it is retained as much as possible.
We seem to be unable to getting through to you: Unless the gene areas are active, they will be compromised. And if these areas are really small, then they need to be able to decompress/inflate/unzip/unrar quite a lot in order to produce enough viable information to create wings, feathers, trunks for eating ants, or whatever.
quote:
That such supersitions of functionality in the genome could exist is entirely plausible, since such is already well known in genetics. In addition, the DNA of a one celled embryo contains the core programming information on how to grow and differentiate, and the unfolding of one stage of development is the signalling of the commencement of the next stage, and so on.
But all of these genes are active at some time during the life-cycle of the induvidual organism. You are talking about fragments of DNA that by its definition is dormant for generations.
quote:
Predictions of the evolutionary programming idea? For one, the appearance, in widely dissimilar organims, of isolated features which are remarkably similar, both on the large scale and on the small molecular - machinery scale. For another, similar evolutionary steps occurring at more than one time and place. For another, portions of genetic sequence from very disparate organisms will occassionally show unexpected similarity.
Now we're getting somewhere. Predictions. I don't have time to examine them right now, but I'll get back on this. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2005 : 00:51:22 [Permalink]
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Markie-
I looked over the book, and to say I don't understand it (as other than vaguely-written fiction) would be an understatement, but that's OK. If it's fueled creative minds, so be it. |
Ron White |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2005 : 11:07:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by markie
Moakley, you must have missed my post where I said outright to HH that he was correct that it was the Urantia book. Regarding whether I took you 'seriously', I took it that you were talking from a speculative point of view, 'tis all.
I owe you an apology. Having read the first few essays from the Urantia link provided by HH I see that I was not that far off. Now I understand your response.
And like HH, I hope that you will understand why this book does not provide a sound foundation for a scientific worldview. Science is not dogmatic, it is indifferent to what people believe or are led to believe.
By the way All, I just found out that some individuals are running for our local school board using the ID agenda. "Discuss the controversy" |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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markie
Skeptic Friend
Canada
356 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2005 : 16:46:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley I owe you an apology. Having read the first few essays from the Urantia link provided by HH I see that I was not that far off. Now I understand your response.
no probs.
quote:
And like HH, I hope that you will understand why this book does not provide a sound foundation for a scientific worldview.
I think herein is the problem. There is no scientific 'worldview', imo, just the scientific method. The scientific method involves relating material phenomena to other material phenomena. It has nothing to do with any non material forces which may play a part in someone's belief system or worldview.
quote:
By the way All, I just found out that some individuals are running for our local school board using the ID agenda. "Discuss the controversy"
I think a reasonable compromise is to include things like both ID and strict naturalism in a philosophy/sociology course in school. Keep it out of the science room.
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spacecadet
New Member
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2005 : 21:08:57 [Permalink]
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I've been following this post with great interest since our beginnings is certainly one of my interests, but Markie, you have said a lot and not come up with a shred of evidence to back your discussion.
Dr. Mabuse has at least shown some cellular evidence showing some possibility of coming from a single cell of seaweed.
Markie, you are gasping for air and not doing any research.
I'd suggest you read the Urantia files tonight, it will give you a little bit of a leg to stand on.
http://www.urantiabook.org/archive/history/h_timlin_5.htm
But it discusses 5 different races of humans brought to earth, your "beta" experimental humans. It even goes clear through to the conception of Jesus, if you have that much reading time on your hands. Interesting read.
Then when you get a little more ammunition from that site and you can get past the "I seem to remember" quotes *sigh* you can read up on the ancient space traveler Nibiru from Sumerian legend who actually made the humans here on earth as they were passing through our galaxy on the 10th planet that cruises through our solar system every 7000 years or so.
http://xfacts.com/x.htm
Another interesting read
Especially if you combine the Myan calendar with the read and realize that the 7000 years is up in the year 2012.
All right Markie, never say I didn't throw a starving dog a bone. Do some research, and use some resources to back up that information! |
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spacecadet
New Member
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2005 : 21:16:50 [Permalink]
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I will have to retract my comments on the Urantia Paper. I failed to see on page 3 that HH had spotted the same line of thinking that I had noticed, that Markie was using the Urantia Papers without directly quoting them. I had hoped to put the link out here so others could figure out where he was coming from.
Vetta
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Clevetta |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2005 : 23:56:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by spacecadet
I will have to retract my comments on the Urantia Paper. I failed to see on page 3 that HH had spotted the same line of thinking that I had noticed, that Markie was using the Urantia Papers without directly quoting them. I had hoped to put the link out here so others could figure out where he was coming from.
Vetta
Sorry to steal your thunder. 
But welcome to the SFN, Vetta.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 11/06/2005 23:56:17 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2005 : 00:12:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by spacecadet
Dr. Mabuse has at least shown some cellular evidence showing some possibility of coming from a single cell of seaweed.
It is evidence that both plant and animal have a common ancestor, but nothing more. Seaweed implies that complex multi-cellular life existed before animals branched out. Then why is there no trace what-so-ever of chloroplasts in animalic cells?
The Cytochrome-C tree I posted was to show how much the DNA changes, not ancestry of plant and an animal. Mitochondria and Chloroplasts are simply remnants of older bacteria that got incorporated into the cell, and both my source-book (Our Cosmic Origin, by Armand Delsemme) and this link (quoted below, fifth paragraph) says that animal predecessor originated from not from plant, but they both originated from the same earlier linage.
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Early [phylogenic]trees included an unresolved polytomy for the early-branching amitochondriate protists (Leipe et al., 1993). It was followed by the separation of the Euglenozoa (Euglena + other euglenids, trypanosomes + other kinetoplastids), a few other taxa such as the Heterolobosea (acrasid slime moulds, and the agents of amoebic meningitis - Naegleria), and a variety of amoeboid organisms (Sogin et al., 1996). The remaining organisms formed a cluster that was referred to as the eukaryotic crown and was interpreted as the nearly simultaneous separation of animals, plants, fungi and several complex protist assemblages (Knoll, 1992).
Emphasis mine. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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markie
Skeptic Friend
Canada
356 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2005 : 12:29:29 [Permalink]
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Hi Guys
Just dropped in to post something which I think supports markie theory. It has been found that a very ancient worm (Platynereis) which apparently has changed little up to the present, has genes which bear a surprising similarity to that of humans. This suggests that genetic complexity existed very early on in evolutionary history, which of course fits nicely in with markie theory, namely that the first cellular life was created and preprogrammed with sufficient complexity to ensure evolution to human.
I likely won't be around for further comment, just wanted to share. :) Happy Thanksgiving
Excerpts from http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/11/051124221029.htm
quote:
Species evolve at very different rates, and the evolutionary line that produced humans seems to be among the slowest. The result, according to a new study by scientists at the European Molecular Biology Laboratory [EMBL], is that our species has retained characteristics of a very ancient ancestor that have been lost in more quickly-evolving animals. This overturns a commonly-held view of the nature of genes in the first animals. ...
While humans have many introns in their genes, common animal models such as flies have fewer. From an evolutionary perspective, it was long assumed that the simpler fly genes would be more ancient. The current study reveals the opposite: early animals already had a lot of introns, and quickly-evolving species like insects have lost most of them. ....
"The fraction of Platynereis genes we have been able to look at tells a very clear story," says researcher Florian Raible, who performed most of the computer analyses. "The worm's genes are very similar to human genes. That's a much different picture than we've seen from the quickly-evolving species that have been studied so far." ...
Now we have direct evidence that genes were already quite complex in the first animals, and many invertebrates have reduced part of this complexity." ...
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2005 : 13:59:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by markie
This suggests that genetic complexity existed very early on in evolutionary history...
If you redefine "very early" to mean 600 million years ago (compared to the 3.5- to 4-billion year history of life on Earth), you might have a point. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2005 : 04:40:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Just dropped in to post something which I think supports markie theory.
Just to reiterate what has been said earlier in this thread: As far as "theories" go, yours is useless. All you've done is to take evolutionary theory as it stands and added some unfalsifyable stuff. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2005 : 17:49:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
I likely won't be around for further comment, just wanted to share.
Resorting to drive-by's now?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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