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 Rove did last minute manuever to delay indictment
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2005 :  01:02:49  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
I am bothered the news wimps are letting the Republican spin miesters get an easy ride on the claims there was no crime and Rove has been cleared when obviously that isn't the case at all just because only Libby was indicted. It's such an obvious statement to make after these stupid mimic interviews on all these news shows.

"No crime, Rove cleared"
"But that isn't what Fitz said now is it?"

I haven't heard any version of that second sentence following the first yet.

Well, according to my news source, the reason Rove wasn't indicted was merely because his lawyer gave Fitzy some last minute documents to peruse. Fitz needs a few days to review those before Rove's indictment. That's all. Not cleared, not off the hook, nada.

ronnywhite
SFN Regular

501 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2005 :  01:55:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ronnywhite a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

I am bothered the news wimps are...

The Moyers and PBS ongoings were unsettling to me, as was what they suggested about the possible types, and extents of government influences on media. Are these isolated "flukes?" Has this kind of thing "always gone on" but we never got wind of it? Am I being paranoid? Or is dishonesty in media (as encouraged by ulterior influnces) "getting worse???"

Ron White
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2005 :  04:28:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Robert Parry has some sobering thoughts on the matter:
quote:
As an outsider to Washington, special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald appears to have misunderstood the finer points of how national security classifications work when a secret is as discrete – and sensitive – as the identity of an undercover CIA officer.

In his five-count indictment of Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff I. Lewis Libby, prosecutor Fitzgerald leaves the false impression that it was all right for White House officials with security clearances to be discussing the identity of CIA officer Valerie Plame, a counter-proliferation official under deep cover.

Under the rules of classification, however, to see such secrets an official must not only have a top-secret clearance but also special code-word clearance that grants access to a specific compartment governed by strict need-to-know requirements.

In both the Libby indictment and a hour-long press conference on Oct. 28, Fitzgerald showed no indication he understood how extraordinary it was for White House officials to be bandying about the name of a covert CIA officer based on the flimsy rationale that she was married to an ex-diplomat who had been sent on a fact-finding trip to Niger.

Fitzgerald, who is the U.S. Attorney in Chicago, appears to have bought into the notion that government officials had a right to discuss Plame's covert status among themselves as long as they didn't pass the secret on to journalists. Then Fitzgerald didn't even seek punishment for that, limiting his criminal case to Libby's lying about how and when he learned of Plame's identity.


And:
quote:
Some Americans, especially Iraq War critics, were deflated by Fitzgerald's insistence that he would prosecute only clearly defined crimes stemming from the Plame case, not venture into a fuller narrative about the Bush administration's justifications for war.

Administration officials are not entirely out of hot water, however, because new disclosures could emerge from Libby's trial or from additional indictments that Fitzgerald might seek before he wraps up his investigation. According to press accounts, Bush's top political adviser Karl Rove remains under investigation for his role in leaking Plame's identity to journalists.

In one of the most mysterious revelations about Fitzgerald's hectic activities on Oct. 28, the day of the Libby indictment, was the New York Times report that the special prosecutor made an unexplained visit to the office of James Sharp, President Bush's personal lawyer. [NYT, Oct. 29, 2005]


Howsomever:
quote:
Wilson, who had served as a diplomat in both Iraq and Africa, returned with the conclusion that the reports were most likely untrue. (The Niger allegations were later debunked by U.N. investigators.)

However, in the State of Union address in January 2003, Bush cited the Niger allegations as part of his rationale for war with Iraq. Bush ordered the invasion of Iraq two months later, but U.S. forces failed to discover any stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction or evidence of an active Iraqi nuclear program.

By spring 2003, Wilson began talking privately to journalists about his Niger findings and criticizing the administration for hyping the WMD intelligence. Behind the scenes, the White House began to hit back, collecting information about Wilson and his trip.

Vice President Cheney and other White House officials soon lear

"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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GeeMack
SFN Regular

USA
1093 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2005 :  20:15:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GeeMack a Private Message
Yep, there are still lots of possibilities ahead. Matt Cooper is apparently ready and willing to put ol' Karl Rove in the hot seat. We can only hope the opportunity presents itself.
quote:
Time Reporter Says He Learned Agent's Identity From Rove...

Oct. 31 2005 -- One of the reporters at the center of the investigation into the leak of the identity of an undercover CIA officer, says he first learned the agent's name from President Bush's top political advisor, Karl Rove.

Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper also said today in an interview with "Good Morning America," that the vice president's chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, confirmed to him that Ambassador Joseph Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, was a CIA operative.

[...]

If a trial goes ahead, Cooper said he would name Rove as his source of the information.

"Before I spoke to Karl Rove I didn't know Mr. Wilson had a wife and that she had been involved in sending him to Africa."
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Espritch
Skeptic Friend

USA
284 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2005 :  20:28:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Espritch's Homepage Send Espritch a Private Message
When the whole Plame thing first broke, President Bush said anyone in the White House who turned out to be involved in outing her would be walking. But when it became obvious that Rove had a hand in it, it was suddenly anyone convicted of a crime in the matter would be walking. Nice little bit of backtracking on his part. I hope they indict Rove but I'm not holding my breath.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2005 :  03:48:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
I was so disappointed by Fitzgerald's baseball analogy. Give me a break, of course these guys knew they had leaked Plame's name and/or at least who she was. Fitzgerald acted as if he had to seriously consider it was just a memory lapse regarding the perjury and obstruction of justice.

I'm not so sure the leak was retaliation though. I think it just as likely it was merely to try to discredit Wilson by saying he only got the job because of nepotism. I can see Rove and Libby as being too stupid to realize Plame was undercover for a reason. Since they give jobs to all their cronies maybe they even believed the job was undeserved. Once again the news media fails to point out Wilson had extensive experience in African and Niger political circles and was well qualified if not uniquely qualified to do that particular job.
Edited by - beskeptigal on 11/02/2005 03:49:05
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vrwc
New Member

47 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2005 :  11:19:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send vrwc a Private Message
The speculation, by the left, on this investigation is just so much masturbation.Wilson outed his wife well before Bob Novack.When it all comes out intrial you'll have to find a new fantasy. vrwc
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2005 :  12:32:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by vrwc

The speculation, by the left, on this investigation is just so much masturbation.Wilson outed his wife well before Bob Novack.When it all comes out intrial you'll have to find a new fantasy. vrwc


Documentation and reference, please...


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2005 :  14:58:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by vrwc

The speculation, by the left, on this investigation is just so much masturbation.Wilson outed his wife well before Bob Novack.When it all comes out intrial you'll have to find a new fantasy. vrwc

Would you be the Admiral from the Bad Astronomy Universe Today forum that I asked to bring the discussion over here?

quote:
Originally posted by Admiral

As the wife of a man very prominent in at least 3 consecutive administrations and pretty prominent in her own right, how far underground could Valerie Plame have been? I'm inclined to believe that she just occupied a position on a government payroll due to her husbands prominence?


Your discussion misses the point that the Bush admin didn't like Wilson's conclusions but instead of finding contradictory evidence they chose to attack the messenger.

Even now the Republicans claim Wilson had no qualifications to have been sent to Africa. When in fact, Wilson had had years of experience as a diplomat not only in Africa but also in Niger specifically. Wilson had all the connections to the people that needed to be contacted and interviewed regarding the subject. He was more than qualified.

So now we hear the Republicans trying to change the subject from, Rove and Libby disclosed classified information to the press for the sole purpose of discrediting a report they didn't want to be read since it went against their claims that Saddam was a nuclear threat, to the subject that somehow releasing classified information didn't matter, as if the fact they were trying to discredit a credible source was somehow a side issue.

The information was classified. It wasn't up to Rove and Libby to decide the information didn't need to be classified. That was up to the CIA. So either Rove and Libby knowingly disclosed classified information for political gain of the worst kind, sending the country into war, or, they ignorantly and/or carelessly disclosed the information for the same purpose. Either way, the importance of the disclosure is another issue. Perhaps the significance of the released information goes to the decision of whether the disclosure was negligent, criminal or treasonous. But the disclosure was wrong, none the less.
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