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rubysue
Skeptic Friend
USA
199 Posts |
 Posted - 11/08/2001 : 05:49:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Rubysue: I doubt that you even read what you write or the URL's that you post. When others are done reading the lies that you spread, I can get them some information about people who claim to have the cure for all diseases.
Chomsky is not a supporter of Faurisson. If you don't like the fact that Chomsky focuses on linguistics and criticism of U.S. foreign policy, I imagine you don't like the idea that Ben & Jerry's focuses on ice cream. You read something negative in people trying to make the world a better place. I don't understand that, but that's your thing I guess. I don't see your thing as being constructive at all. I see what you do as attempting to slur Chomsky with lies rather than dealing with the substance of his messages. Or is that just your famous "sense of humor?"
Is that an annoying mosquito I hear?
Let me explain something to you, Gorgo -
The more you protest, the more I will be compelled to find evidence to contradict and "slur" your hero. Of course, any source of information other than from "approved" alternative media is suspect, isn't it? You can't stand it that someone would actively seek to expose the lies and moral laxity of your hero.
I really don't give a rip if Chomsky is a Holocaust denier; that is his prerogative. What makes me angry is how he denies any knowledge of the content of Robert Faurisson's work and also disavows (in many sources) that Faurisson is an active Holocaust denier. He doth protest too much. By the way, I DID NOT MAKE UP THE LINK TO THE IHR PUBLICATION SITE!!! Explain why Chomsky would use such a suspect source to publish some of his lectures if he is so "sweetly ignorant" of the viewpoints offered within.
Chomsky seeks to destroy, not improve the world. That is the natural role of the anarchist.
You have YET to answer the question about the moral nature of Chomsky's views; if you agree with them, then I charge that you are also a moral relativist who cannot distinguish right from wrong.
Off to my slave-driving corporate purgatory...
rubysue
If your head is wax, don't walk in the sun.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2001 : 06:02:24 [Permalink]
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Once again, your anger, which seems to apply to anything having to do with reality, is irrelevant. Just because someone SELLS Chomsky's tapes means nothing. I can sell his tapes too if I want.
Just because some con artist puts up a web site with a lot of meaningless crap on it, you lap it up, because you like to tear things down, not build them up.
quote:
Is that an annoying mosquito I hear?
Let me explain something to you, Gorgo -
The more you protest, the more I will be compelled to find evidence to contradict and "slur" your hero. Of course, any source of information other than from "approved" alternative media is suspect, isn't it? You can't stand it that someone would actively seek to expose the lies and moral laxity of your hero.
I really don't give a rip if Chomsky is a Holocaust denier; that is his prerogative. What makes me angry is how he denies any knowledge of the content of Robert Faurisson's work and also disavows (in many sources) that Faurisson is an active Holocaust denier. He doth protest too much. By the way, I DID NOT MAKE UP THE LINK TO THE IHR PUBLICATION SITE!!! Explain why Chomsky would use such a suspect source to publish some of his lectures if he is so "sweetly ignorant" of the viewpoints offered within.
Chomsky seeks to destroy, not improve the world. That is the natural role of the anarchist.
You have YET to answer the question about the moral nature of Chomsky's views; if you agree with them, then I charge that you are also a moral relativist who cannot distinguish right from wrong.
Off to my slave-driving corporate purgatory...
rubysue
If your head is wax, don't walk in the sun.
Lisa Lisa, sad Lisa Lisa - Cat Stevens
Edited by - Gorgo on 11/08/2001 06:03:01 |
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rubysue
Skeptic Friend
USA
199 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2001 : 06:11:08 [Permalink]
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This has gone on long enough; hopefully I have made the point to others..I'm tired of the battle, to be honest with everyone. My research has indeed, however, helped me strengthen my disdain and disgust for Chomsky.
I concede defeat in this topic post, Gorgo. You can annoy the paint off a wall and are one of the most nasty individuals I've ever had the displeasure to encounter (and your little friends are right there with you). Go off and change the world with Noam Chomsky, but let me know first when you plan to do it so that I can move to a remote tropical island and get away from the horrifying results.
I'm done with this one...
rubysue
If your head is wax, don't walk in the sun.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2001 : 08:10:26 [Permalink]
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Ggo, you are correct that people are starving but guess what? People in Afghanistan were starving long before September 11th.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2001 : 08:13:05 [Permalink]
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I will say it again. Yes, I know this. Yes I know this, yes I know this. I was not born on September 12th. It is ancient history. What I am saying is that the U.S. (not the UN, not Saddam Hussein, not the Taliban) is stopping the trucks from coming in the country. Now MANY MANY MANY more people will die for the sake of shooting some people who have no idea where New York is.
quote:
Ggo, you are correct that people are starving but guess what? People in Afghanistan were starving long before September 11th.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Lisa Lisa, sad Lisa Lisa - Cat Stevens
Edited by - Gorgo on 11/08/2001 08:17:52 |
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Gandalf
New Member
13 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2001 : 08:49:42 [Permalink]
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Gorgo, et al -
I could of course spend hours refuting all of Rubysue's ridiculous assertions, but it's obvious that she has so bought up the lies about Chomsky that she is beyond an intelligent debate on this subject. (On others I'm sure she's much more reasonable - at least I hope so.) She does not offer honest criticism, but only the same regurgitated nonsense you hear from David Horowitz and others. I will waste no more time on this, and I encourage you to do the same.
My fear, however, is that she has actually managed to influence a few of you have little knowledge of Chomsky's work. My last recommendation on this subject is this: for those of you who have not yet formed a concrete opinion about Chomsky, I encourage you to read the works themselves and not Rubysue's fanciful distortions of the subject. Give the man a chance and read him with an open mind. He is not an America hater or a Holocaust denier. The worst you could say about him is that he fiercly defends a Holocaust denier's right to say whatever he or she wants on the subject - as opposed to others, who say they're behind free speech, but then add all sorts of qualifications, as Rubysue has done. She apparently thinks Chomsky telling people his opinion in our country, or in other similar free countries, is somehow a traitorous act, which I'm sure we can all see is nonsense on the face of it. If you knew anything about the man, you'd know that you might as well say the same thing about Ghandi, it has about as much truth to it. He does focus on the negative aspects of U.S. foreign policy, but if you read him, you will also see that he openly states the United States is by far the most free and democratic country in the world. Do not read snippets out of context. The best online source I know is at www.zmag.org. It's a good place to start.
Form your own judgements like any good skeptic should do. Do not be a parrot and repeat someone else's opinion unless you have read the work themselves. If you read him in depth, and you disagree with him, fine, there are many who do. But to disagree with him without reading him is intellectually dishonest. You are all too intelligent for that.
quote:
I will say it again. Yes, I know this. Yes I know this, yes I know this. I was not born on September 12th. It is ancient history. What I am saying is that the U.S. (not the UN, not Saddam Hussein, not the Taliban) is stopping the trucks from coming in the country. Now MANY MANY MANY more people will die for the sake of shooting some people who have no idea where New York is.
quote:
Ggo, you are correct that people are starving but guess what? People in Afghanistan were starving long before September 11th.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Lisa Lisa, sad Lisa Lisa - Cat Stevens
Edited by - Gorgo on 11/08/2001 08:17:52
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2001 : 09:32:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
I will say it again. Yes, I know this. Yes I know this, yes I know this. I was not born on September 12th. It is ancient history. What I am saying is that the U.S. (not the UN, not Saddam Hussein, not the Taliban) is stopping the trucks from coming in the country. Now MANY MANY MANY more people will die for the sake of shooting some people who have no idea where New York is.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ggo, you are correct that people are starving but guess what? People in Afghanistan were starving long before September 11th.
@tomic
Here, throw this into the fray.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1645000/1645297.stm
"BBC journalists allowed into Afghanistan by the Taleban report seeing huge supplies of food by the roadside and say Kabul is relatively quiet"
Ah yes, the fog of war. Pass the popcorn.
(:raig |
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2001 : 09:58:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
The Security Council is not the UN. The UN is much more than the Security Council, and parts of the UN want the bombing to stop so that trucks can get back in and so that the borders can be opened, etc. This is just P.R. bullshit on the part of the U.S. and its brothers.
Well, if you say so... ",..its brothers," *L* The US does have some 'sway' in the UN, but wouldn't say, they are brothers. Think most would agree, that the UN Security Council does indeed speak for the UN, short of there being a full session. And admit, that there are elements within the UN, that would want a bombing halt, if for no other reason, to allow the Taliban to regroup. Sited the article, not the only one have read BTW, to support my opinion. The UN wants the Taliban to stop looting the food warehouses, stealing their trucks, and beating their personnel, which would tend to impede delivery of food and medical supplies. Would you agree? Believe our forces would steer clear of any announced delivery attempts, given the chance.
quote:
The Taliban is to blame for a lot of things, the Russians are to blame for a lot of things, the U.S. is to blame for a lot of things, Pakistan is to blame, Britain is to blame. All of that means nothing to people who are starving, and who need the food..,
Well, yes, would have to agree. And would have to say the Afghan people aren't completely devoid of blame for their government as well.
quote:
..,that the U.S. is keeping from them.
Now this is just plain ol' bullshit. You do know, who supplies the most food aid to Afghanistan, don't you? Know it will hurt, but want to hear you say it. And it is done though the good offices of the UN.
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." -Voltaire |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2001 : 11:30:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Well, yes, would have to agree. And would have to say the Afghan people aren't completely devoid of blame for their government as well.
I see. Uneducated people who don't even know what a Pakistan is, are responsible for "their" government. Unlike the U.S. and Great Britain whose funds trained the Taliban in Pakistan, or unlike the U.S. and Great Britain who funded the Taliban, or unlike the rest of the area who thought that the Taliban was the only alternative to the chaos that the USSR and U.S. left.
..,that the U.S. is keeping from them.
[/quote]
Now this is just plain ol' bullshit. You do know, who supplies the most food aid to Afghanistan, don't you? Know it will hurt, but want to hear you say it. And it is done though the good offices of the UN.
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." -Voltaire
[/quote]
You know, I've heard that before. I've never seen any figures, so if you have some, I'd appreciate it. However, if this is the only means that they have to stay alive, and the U.S. takes it away, it really isn't murder because "WE" didn't have to give it to them in the first place. Never mind that "WE" have some responsibility for the chaos to begin with.
Lisa Lisa, sad Lisa Lisa - Cat Stevens |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2001 : 11:42:16 [Permalink]
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One of the reasons I talk about the things that I talk about is that I find that other countries can do things that are "evil" but the U.S. can't.
The latest atrocity of the Taliban, and it is terrible, is that they are and have been stealing food from the people of Afghanistan.
Now, I asked this question of a friend, and it went completely over his head (and I'm sure he thought it was "Un-American" to ask, so I suspect it will you as well. Is there ever a scenario in which you could see that this would be an understandable act? If the situation were reversed and the Taliban was about to completely take over the United States, would it be acceptable, to keep the armies going to steal food from the populace?
Lisa Lisa, sad Lisa Lisa - Cat Stevens |
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2001 : 11:51:09 [Permalink]
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Interesting link...
"A UN-appointed official dealing with hunger on Monday condemned US airdrops of food rations in Afghanistan as a catastrophe for humanitarian aid and warned that the US was effectively feeding Taliban fighters."
"The Taliban authorities asked foreign relief workers to leave Afghanistan four weeks ago."
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." -Voltaire |
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