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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
 Posted - 11/03/2005 : 08:55:18
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Found this on talk.origins:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5479410612081345878
While this could fit in both the Religion or the Creation/Evolution folders, this is just to silly.
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2005 : 09:26:18 [Permalink]
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| He is a molacka. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2005 : 10:36:50 [Permalink]
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| That's the most retarted thing I have ever seen! |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Subjectmatter
Skeptic Friend
173 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2005 : 13:51:37 [Permalink]
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| Good-looking guy though. I'll give him that. |
Sibling Atom Bomb of Couteous Debate |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2005 : 18:09:06 [Permalink]
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Wow, one sided apologetics like this always makes my blood boil. I end up screaming at my computer screen. At one point these assholes say that atheists claim "God doesn't exist," an absolute statement, which is invalidated since atheist do not possess absolute knowledge. First of all, I know of no atheists who are stupid enough to make that claim. Secondly, the idea that it is absolutely known god does exist would have to be similarly disqualified, yet that statement is never addressed. Fucking dishonest brain washers, the lot of them.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2005 : 19:09:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert:
Wow, one sided apologetics like this always makes my blood boil. I end up screaming at my computer screen. At one point these assholes say that atheists claim "God doesn't exist," an absolute statement, which is invalidated since atheist do not possess absolute knowledge. First of all, I know of no atheists who are stupid enough to make that claim. Secondly, the idea that it is absolutely known god does exist would have to be similarly disqualified, yet that statement is never addressed. Fucking dishonest brain washers, the lot of them.
Jeez, H., how can you fail to be convinced by the theory of intelligent banana design? |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 00:44:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by R.Wreck
Jeez, H., how can you fail to be convinced by the theory of intelligent banana design?
Yea, who need more evidence than that?
Not even Mark Isaak has been able to explain away that.
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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ar
New Member
30 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 00:59:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
....At one point these assholes say that atheists claim "God doesn't exist," an absolute statement, which is invalidated since atheist do not possess absolute knowledge. First of all, I know of no atheists who are stupid enough to make that claim....
I guess I'm not sure what is incorrect about the statment? I looked it up on in a couple of dictionaries out of curiosity (never actually gave it much thought before!), and they all seem to say something similiar to Merriam-Webster's definition:
quote:
Main Entry: athe·ist
Pronunciation: 'A-thE-ist
Function: noun
: one who believes that there is no deity
Although, looking closely at encarta's...
quote:
unbeliever in God or deities: somebody who does not believe in God or deities
I suppose "not believing in God" is a bit different then "believing there is no God."
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 01:05:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ar
I guess I'm not sure what is incorrect about the statment?
It's about proof. I believe there is no such thing as the Tooth Fairy even though I cannot prove the Tooth Fairy does not exist, nor can I ever know with absolute certainty it does not exist. That's why I say "I believe the tooth fairy does not exist. Not, "I know for a fact that the tooth fairy does not exist," or especially the condensed "The tooth fairy does not exist." Similarly, an atheist is simply someone who doesn't hold a belief in a god/gods.
But these guys are trying to imply that "believe" is the same thing as "knows with absolute certainty," which is the kind of BS that an atheist would point out to them about 3 seconds into their argument if they were at all honest about it. Instead they have to ramble on for 45 minutes as if they were actually arguing against a position a living, breathing human being holds somewhere.
This stupid argument that "no one can be an atheist since know one can know there is no god" means that they've just determined there can't be any theists either! They can't know there is a god, then. Everyone's an agnostic according to their ridiculous logic!
The truly disturbing part is these are the best arguments they have. This is a "training video" about how to preach to atheists. This is the dreck they are encouraging their followers to go out and use on godless people. Unbelievable.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 11/04/2005 03:15:59 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 09:59:37 [Permalink]
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Okay, I watched the video. Anyone here can recognize the strawman argument they built. That is, atheists know that there is no god. Dumb. They also miss that agnostics are not theists either, which makes them atheists by definition. Really, setting out to prove the reverse is true is silly since they completely miss what it means to be agnostic. They don't seem to get that there isn't a great deal of difference between agnostics and atheists. Comes down to how we see ourselves and define our worldview is all. The difference between “I don't believe” and “I can't know” (which implies a non belief) is hardly worth mentioning. And while atheists and agnostics like to argue the finer points of their differences from time to time, they are both non-theists.
Anyhow, they trot out Pascal's wager over and over again. Like any informed atheist wouldn't recognize that argument for what it is. They trot out design as though it's an original argument that no atheist has ever heard or been able to rebut. I bet that they edited out a lot of really good arguments shot back at them. I would have loved to be one of the persons they talked to. I'm sure that conversation would have been edited out too.
All in all, I think the production values could have been improved with a laugh track…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 12:58:45 [Permalink]
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Hallelujah! Praise Jesus! I can't believe that I am the only one who found the practical, yet real, demonstration with the banana compelling.
I found Ray's message (or at least his name) comforting. 
The building is real. It is clearly designed. But your guess is a good as mine as to who the designer was and what mechanism were employed. SO I will have faith that there was a designer, and honestly that's all you really need to know.
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Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 14:05:18 [Permalink]
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I tried watching more of this video, but I was forced to shut it off after hearing the soda can analogy or risk damage to my PC. Can anyone fill me in on the banana argument?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 14:36:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
I tried watching more of this video, but I was forced to shut it off after hearing the soda can analogy or risk damage to my PC. Can anyone fill me in on the banana argument?
quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
I tried watching more of this video, but I was forced to shut it off after hearing the soda can analogy or risk damage to my PC. Can anyone fill me in on the banana argument?
I think it was that God created the perfect pop-top, agronomic and bio-degradable and therefore proof of design. Makes me wonder what God was thinking when he designed the artichoke?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 20:36:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
I think it was that God created the perfect pop-top, agronomic and bio-degradable and therefore proof of design. Makes me wonder what God was thinking when he designed the artichoke?
I can only image. But once you cut the top of each leaf so you don't eviscerate your fingers, and boil the thing forever, they are pretty good. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 20:57:25 [Permalink]
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Just watching this now. Holy shit. Is this loon arguing that a banana is proof of God? Pour me another beer-- this is gonna be great!
Real-time edit:
*And now they pull the Darwin quote out of context to proove that, in Kirk's words, "even the, uh, creator of the theory of evolution says that 'it just goes against my common sense and logic.'" If only Kirk had some!
*And now we're going to "prove" that god exists using the tried and failed (and tired) watchmaker analogy. *Yawn* (PS: Kirk, how 'well made' are humans?)
*Ohh- now to logic. If I make an absolute statement, I have to know everything. No gold in China, eh, Kirk? I guess he can't say that Zeus doesn't live on Mars, or that a giant fire-breathing clown isn't hiding in the backseat of his mother's car, either. Where's that beer?
*Oh, now they catch an atheist on film. Surely, they didn't pick this example to prove their point, no? No, the guy's a stooge. In fact, the guy they interview sounds like a fucking ringer!! And, I might add, a fucking stoner. This guy couldn't argue his way out of a wet paper bag!
*More interviews. Of course, they pick interviews they pick people who can't defend themselves. An idiot could answer these questions better than these people do.
*Ok, I can't take it. Five more mintes of this is too much. It's a sham, and worthless.
And Kirk Cameron is an idiot. Really. |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 11/04/2005 21:22:28 |
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