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Patrick Hennessey
New Member
USA
33 Posts |
 Posted - 11/11/2005 : 02:10:00 [Permalink]
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| So, being a skeptic means being a total jerk too, i see. |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2005 : 02:39:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Hennessey
...As to Darwin's 'theory' (emphasis on theory), there is no evidence that man is descended from the ape and no one has found a 'missing link'...Take a lizard which through random mutation grew a long finger. Then it grew skin followed by feathers. The odds of this are incomprehensible...
1. You don't seem to know that a "theory" in science is not the same as a "theory" on the street.
2. Lizards are not dinosaurs.
3. You seem to think that evolution takes place all within the lifetime of one animal, and you don't consider natural selection or time.
4. You seem to think humans descended from apes, which is not supported by evolution. Apes and humans have related ancestors. (Probably a good idea to read up on these terms more.)
5. Paleontologists, and kids of all ages who like dinosaurs, and who care to read up on the subject rather than just wave their hands in the air, know about a creature named Archaeopteryx, (pronounced: "Ar-key-op-trix") of which excellent fossils have been found. Archaeopteryx was an ancient reptile-bird with features, teeth and scales (in other words, a birdlike dinosaur,) who lived in the Jurassic period.
Archaeopteryx itself likely did not lead to directly to modern birds, but it had some birdlike characteristics as did other prehistoric animals.
It is generally thought that Dromaeosaurs such as Deinonychus, Utahraptor, and the now famous* Velociraptor were creatures that all led more directly to the birds of today. Some of these animals were likely warm blooded reptiles.
* Famous thanks to film maker Steven Spielberg.
(BTW – In Spielberg's "Jurassic Park", the Velociraptors seem much closer to the size and shape of the fossils of Deinonychus, which were equally terrifying but larger animals with deadly and unusual, large swivel hook claws on their otherwise birdlike feet.
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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Patrick Hennessey
New Member
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2005 : 03:06:13 [Permalink]
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| What about the physics of flight in nature? For example, how would nature "comprehend" that lift plus momentum would cause a creature or object to lift off the ground or fly? |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2005 : 03:19:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Hennessey
So, being a skeptic means being a total jerk too, i see.
I'll take that as an admission.
Reality can be a bitch...
 quote:
What about the physics of flight in nature? For example, how would nature "comprehend" that lift plus momentum would cause a creature or object to lift off the ground or fly?
What on earth are you talking about? |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2005 : 03:59:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Hennessey
If random mutation is the key to evolution, where are the fossils which prove the transition? Where is the invertebrate that transcends into the vertebrate? Where is the fish that becomes a lizard, a lizard that becomes a bird and the many mutations in between?
The diversity of species seems aufully vast for random mutation to be the answer. Take a lizard which through random mutation grew a long finger. Then it grew skin followed by feathers. The odds of this are incomprehensible. The odds of a mutation being beneficial are also extremely high. Imagine a lizard with an extremely long finger on each side running through the grass and brush, bouncing up and down like a fishing lure snagging itself constantly until some predator gobbles it up. Until they find the feathered reptile with the long fingers or the other transitionary creatures, evolution will never look like a solid, clear-cut and dry fact. it will remain as believable to me as the Big Bang and zero-point energy.
One word: thecodonts.
quote:
Mammal-Like Reptiles
As previously stated, a succession of transitional fossils exists that link reptiles (Class Reptilia) and mammals (Class Mammalia). These particular reptiles are classifie as Subclass Synapsida. Presently, this is the best example of th e transformation of one major higher taxon into another. The morphologic changes that took place are well documented by fossils, beginning with animals essentially 100% reptilian and resulting in animals essentially 100% mammalian. Therefore, I have chosen this as the example to summarize in more detail (Table 1, Fig. 1).
You seem to be trying to use the tired, old "half-a-wing-is-no-good" argument. That one has been shot down like it was trying to fly on half a wing. TO has a good bit on it. Basicly, the wing was a feathered leg doubling as a gliding device before it evolved into a Superbowl snack.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2005 : 07:32:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Hennessey
If random mutation is the key to evolution, where are the fossils which prove the transition? Where is the invertebrate that transcends into the vertebrate? Where is the fish that becomes a lizard, a lizard that becomes a bird and the many mutations in between?
The diversity of species seems aufully vast for random mutation to be the answer. Take a lizard which through random mutation grew a long finger. Then it grew skin followed by feathers. The odds of this are incomprehensible. The odds of a mutation being beneficial are also extremely high. Imagine a lizard with an extremely long finger on each side running through the grass and brush, bouncing up and down like a fishing lure snagging itself constantly until some predator gobbles it up. Until they find the feathered reptile with the long fingers or the other transitionary creatures, evolution will never look like a solid, clear-cut and dry fact. it will remain as believable to me as the Big Bang and zero-point energy.
Good point, Patrick. In fact, it's so compelling that I've started to scribe to the Babel Theory of language origin. Because as yet, I've found no transition between, say, Old English and Middle English. And since it's just incomprehensible to imagine a person waking up one day and speaking a new language-- let alone having that language understood by others-- is seems more likely that all language was created by Yahweh as told in the Bible!! |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2005 : 07:37:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Hennessey
I would ask you to provide information about this simian/human dna comparison, as i have had considerable trouble finding it, or the results of the comparison (and the implications of this supposed comparison which you didnt bother to mention).
Hey Patrick, I'm still concerned that you haven't read the links I posted regarding DNA and how comparisons between humand and chimp DNA demonstrates quite clearly the notion of common ancestry.
If you aren't interested, then that is fine. But please, don't waste our time asking questions when you aren't going to bother looking at the answers provided.
Thanks! |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2005 : 10:59:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Hennessey
...oh please...
Nice rebuttal. The fact of the matter is, though, that ID proponents have been caught in bald-faced lies on the witness stand. If swearing an oath to God to tell the truth isn't enough to keep them from perjuring themselves, what's to stop an IDist from posting that he's not an IDist, here on the SFN where no oath is required?quote:
If random mutation is the key to evolution...
It isn't.quote:
...where are the fossils which prove the transition?
All over the place. That you are ignorant of them is not a fault within the theory of evolution.quote:
The diversity of species seems aufully vast for random mutation to be the answer.
And now, the classic argument from incredulity. Guess what, Patrick? Nature doesn't care one bit if you believe in it or not.
Plus, again, "random mutation" is not the answer. How many times do we need to point out your cluelessness about evolution before you'll stop acting so foolish? Even the questions you ask are full of nonsense premises. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2005 : 15:20:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Hennessey
So, being a skeptic means being a total jerk too, i see.
He was being truthful.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Patrick Hennessey
New Member
USA
33 Posts |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2005 : 17:34:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Hennessey
What about the physics of flight in nature? For example, how would nature "comprehend" that lift plus momentum would cause a creature or object to lift off the ground or fly?
Trial-and-error. A well known principle. Known to most of us, anyway.
Edted to add: Lift and momentum... is that the extent of your knowledge of the physics of flight? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 11/12/2005 17:37:55 |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2005 : 16:44:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Orignally posted by Patrick Hennessey
The differences should be obvious and radical.
They were pretty obvious. I have no idea why you want them to be radical. What does it even mean?
quote:
Orignally posted by Patrick Hennessey
from a molecular and atomic level, i am 100% the same as everything in the universe. that tells you nothing.
If you compare your molecular composition to that of a rock, a car or the the Sun, you will find that there are differences. It tells you something - just not very much about evolution.
quote:
Orignally posted by Patrick Hennessey
I think that percentage similarities dont really tell you anything.
quote:
Orignally posted by Patrick Hennessey
a 1% difference can mean a lot in genetics. this is actually a considerable difference with respect to the genome sequence.
Eh? Yes, 1% difference can be huge. But not necessarily. Was that what you meant? But of course, that all depends on where these differences are.
quote:
Orignally posted by Patrick Hennessey
So, being a skeptic means being a total jerk too, i see.
Let's file this under logical fallacy straight away |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2005 : 01:41:44 [Permalink]
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This thread made it into Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
Congratulation Patrick!
You got the "Most Informed Creationist Award" of November 2005.
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2005 : 02:57:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Hennessey
What about the physics of flight in nature? For example, how would nature "comprehend" that lift plus momentum would cause a creature or object to lift off the ground or fly?
That's like asking:
"Why is it that just enough news happens every day to fill all the world's newspapers?"
Nature is the nature of the air and environment itself. Nature doesn't "comprehend" moment by moment. Rather, an environment that is conducive to lift and momentum exists, and sooner or later some animals, insects and plant seeds tend to develop into skipping, drifting, floating, gliding and flying through it. |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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