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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2005 :  18:32:32  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
But by not teaching it you risk God's wrath.
quote:
Conservative Christian televangelist Pat Robertson told citizens of a Pennsylvania town that they had rejected God by voting their school board out of office for supporting "intelligent design" and warned them on Thursday not to be surprised if disaster struck.

"I'd like to say to the good citizens of Dover: if there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God, you just rejected Him from your city," Robertson said on his daily television show broadcast from Virginia, "The 700 Club."

"And don't wonder why He hasn't helped you when problems begin, if they begin. I'm not saying they will, but if they do, just remember, you just voted God out of your city. And if that's the case, don't ask for His help because he might not be there," he said.



"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie

Edited by - H. Humbert on 11/10/2005 18:38:24

Patrick Hennessey
New Member

USA
33 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2005 :  00:42:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Patrick Hennessey a Private Message
Not only is this idiotic, but not christian at all. If this guy is a christain, then god save us...

but i guess weve voted him out too...look out guys!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2005 :  03:39:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Good ol' Pat. Still hangin' in there like a burdock in a mule's tail. He's just playing to his audience and trying to retrieve some of his lost relevance. Pay him no mind -- say, did you notice that his Dover blurt seems to have a rather Phelpsian tone to it? Welladay....

Heh, ID is to science as Chick tracts are to literature.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1888 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2005 :  04:55:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by filthy

Heh, ID is to science as Chick tracts are to literature.

LOL

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4955 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2005 :  19:17:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
An interesting point was made by a reader over at [url="http://www.americablog.org]AMERICABlog[/url]. By asserting that by rejecting ID, the Dover people are rejecting God, doesn't that strongly link ID and (Christian) religion? I mean, if we're going to posit that ID is just another scientific way to view the diversity of life on earth, then why should the Christian God care?

Indeed...
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2005 :  19:41:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist

An interesting point was made by a reader over at [url="http://www.americablog.org]AMERICABlog[/url]. By asserting that by rejecting ID, the Dover people are rejecting God, doesn't that strongly link ID and (Christian) religion? I mean, if we're going to posit that ID is just another scientific way to view the diversity of life on earth, then why should the Christian God care?

Indeed...

Yeah, I read that one. ID's cover is blown like Valery Plame and the Discovery(?) Institute, which didn't have much of a leg to stand on to start with, has been cut off at the knees.

Betcha they wish they could try Patty for treason....


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26022 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2005 :  20:05:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
ID's cover was blown years before the Dover trial, when the Wedge Document became public. And then again when Dembski said that ID was just the Logos of the Gospel of John rewritten in the language of information theory. And then again when... well, you know the drill.

The problem was (is) that when challenged, IDists did nothing but deny their previous remarks (and claim the Wedge Document was just a fund-raising tool). Dover gave them the chance to deny their public remarks under oath, or else admit to ID's entirely religious purpose. They continued to deny, and if the judge rules against them, the transparency of that denial will be a matter of legal record (though it's unlikely this case will go to SCOTUS).

It's possible that a perjury charge may be on the horizon for at least one witness.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Espritch
Skeptic Friend

USA
284 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2005 :  23:29:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Espritch's Homepage Send Espritch a Private Message
quote:
It's possible that a perjury charge may be on the horizon for at least one witness.


That would be a delicious end note for the Dover creationist debacle.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2005 :  00:26:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
And they say ID isn't religion. Yah, right.

Pat sure is a loony. But then I have to say so are the whole bunch of the extremists, of all religions. What was the religion is genetic thread? I think loonys are just attracted to religious explanations for their bizarre thinking.
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Chippewa
SFN Regular

USA
1496 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2005 :  04:34:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Chippewa's Homepage Send Chippewa a Private Message
CNN can sometimes be a bit milquetoast about stories like this, but not their Jack Cafferty, who was quite sussinct in his opinion of Pat Robertson. After reading this story he looked up and said someting like: "Somebody get a net."

Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.

"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.)
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2005 :  04:39:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Chippewa

CNN can sometimes be a bit milquetoast about stories like this, but not their Jack Cafferty, who was quite sussinct in his opinion of Pat Robertson. After reading this story he looked up and said someting like: "Somebody get a net."


I gotta net! I gotta net! I will help!


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1888 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2005 :  15:30:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message
Also enjoyed Barry Lynn's comment.

quote:
"It shows he's evolving into a crankier fringe character than we expected," said Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State. "God has better things to do than worry about the outcome of a school board election."


Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2005 :  06:07:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/creech/051117
quote:
No man of God is perfect, Pat Robertson included. All have their various weaknesses and peculiararities. But that doesn't mean God doesn't speak through them to issue dire warnings and calls to repentance.

"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2005 :  06:41:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
The teaching of intelligent design is neither faith-based, nor does it put religion in the classroom as its critics have suggested. In a recent address given to The Fellowship of Christians at Bucknell University, Dr. Richard Land, president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention explained that the theory of "Intelligent Design" was initiated by scientists, biochemists, physicists, and mathematicians, "whose research led them to conclude that the irreducible complexity of life can best be explained by the presence of an intelligent designer as opposed to nothing plus chance plus time equals nothing." "Their case," added Land, "is not based on the Bible or religion; it is based on scientific evidence...I am not saying that these scientist have proved that the intelligent designer was God...that is a faith affirmation. What they have done is to expose the scientifically unsatisfactory explanation that is the evolutionary theory of the origins of the universe."

Oh, spare me the prevarications of Richard Land. But I would ask him which scientists and what percentage of the scientific community they represent, and if any of them are named, "Steve."

quote:
Still, the citizens of Dover would have none of it. Nothing that might even suggest God, the Bible, or faith should be allowed, they said. Never mind intelligent design wasn't meant to do that; we just don't want any possibility God could be a factor in our origins insinuated to our children via the science curriculum of our public schools. Though it takes more faith to believe in the Darwinian evolutionary theory of the universe's origins than it does to propose there could be an intelligent designer behind it all, we opt to listen only to the secular, scientific priests of our day and worship at the altar of naturalistic evolutionary orthodoxy. Any school board member representing the prospect of some other point of view shall not be permitted to keep their post.

Yes, that is in essence an official rejection of God. It's not to say that there are no righteous people in Dover. It doesn't mean that no good lies within its borders. But it does pose the question: What right does Dover have to look to God and yet deny Him by repudiating in an election those that would represent the slightest possibility of an acknowledgment of Him? Did not Christ articulate the principle when he said, "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me"? (Matthew 25:40)

Hoist by the petard of his own words! ID is a religious foot in the door of the science classroom and the past election in Dover, dumping it's proponents was a slap at God. No mention of the citizens Dover wanting give their kids a good grounding in highschool science. Also no mention that ID may be discussed in some class other than science.

I thought the story of the bedlamite preacher (so many of them are, you know) in NC was a good'n too, even though it failed to take in to account any economic or locality factors.

Over all, pretty much of a standard blither from the pulpit. Should'a kept his pen idle and let Robertson take his well-deserved lumps.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 11/18/2005 06:49:58
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9688 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2005 :  06:46:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
God whould not in his infinite wisdom send an important message through a rambling idiot which almost everyone would ignore.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2005 :  07:41:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Y'know, I just might have to take back some of the hard sayin's I've laid on Charles Krauthammer
quote:
'Intelligent Design' Foolishly Pits Evolution Against Faith

By Charles Krauthammer

Friday, November 18, 2005; Page A23

Because every few years this country, in its infinite tolerance, insists on hearing yet another appeal of the Scopes monkey trial, I feel obliged to point out what would otherwise be superfluous: that the two greatest scientists in the history of our species were Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein, and they were both religious.

Newton's religion was traditional. He was a staunch believer in Christianity and a member of the Church of England. Einstein's was a more diffuse belief in a deity who set the rules for everything that occurs in the universe.

Neither saw science as an enemy of religion. On the contrary. "He believed he was doing God's work," James Gleick wrote in his recent biography of Newton. Einstein saw his entire vocation -- understanding the workings of the universe -- as an attempt to understand the mind of God.

Not a crude and willful God who pushes and pulls and does things according to whim. Newton was trying to supplant the view that first believed the sun's motion around the earth was the work of Apollo and his chariot, and later believed it was a complicated system of cycles and epicycles, one tacked upon the other every time some wobble in the orbit of a planet was found. Newton's God was not at all so crude. The laws of his universe were so simple, so elegant, so economical and therefore so beautiful that they could only be divine.

Which brings us to Dover, Pa., Pat Robertson, the Kansas State Board of Education, and a fight over evolution that is so anachronistic and retrograde as to be a national embarrassment.


Pretty decent filet job, Charlie. Well done!


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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