|
|
|
llDayo
New Member
USA
24 Posts |
 Posted - 11/18/2005 : 09:51:13
|
http://www.cannabisculture.com/backissues/cc11/christ.html
Just came across this article. I'm not much on theology but it's definitely an interesting read so far! I'm only about halfway through it but it makes a great case for how Jesus came about to be called Messiah and how cannabis may have been related to his life, to this point. Feel free to discuss 
|
|
|
furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
 Posted - 11/18/2005 : 10:37:56 [Permalink]
|
I can't comment, strangely enough my work blocked the site 'cannabisculture'. Go figure.
It makes sense though, the paintings of him depict a young, long haired, sandal wearing, WASP. |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
| Edited by - furshur on 11/18/2005 10:38:19 |
 |
|
|
llDayo
New Member
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2005 : 10:57:09 [Permalink]
|
Well, furshur, to give you a taste (maybe you could read it at home later if you're on a work computer?):
quote:
One of Jesus' most well known miracles is his healing of lepers, which appears in the first three New Testament Gospels. The term translated as leprosy can actually refer to any number of skin diseases, usually systemic infectious lesions or extreme allergic reactions.
Due to its topical anti-bacterial properties, cannabis has been used to treat a variety of skin diseases such as pruritis, also known as atopic dermatitis, an inflammatory skin disorder. The symptoms of pruritis are severe itching, "and patches of inflamed skin, especially on the hands, face, neck legs, and genitals,"17 a description that sounds startlingly similar to the skin disease described in Leviticus 13, called tsara'ath. It is usually translated in the Old Testament as leprosy, but has been noted by a number of scholars to be more likely a reference to a severe form of pruritis rather than true leprosy (Hansen's disease).
Hope that whets your appetite! |
|
|
|
GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2005 : 11:37:11 [Permalink]
|
Interesting material, llDayo. Thanks for posting it. The article seems to be fairly well researched and written. I picked up on a sense that the authors had a preconceived notion that this was true, then set about the task of selecting and interpreting evidence that might support their notion. But at least they seem to stop short of declaring their findings as truth, using phrases like "could have been" and "may account for" and such.
It is well known that many medications have their origins in natural products like plants, fungi, and even various animal fluids. We also know that hallucinogenic plants and mind altering compounds have been used, and in some cultures are still used in rites of passage and initiation ceremonies throughout the world. I would think if this were the case with Jesus and his rise to status of Messiah, there might be more specific descriptions of the processes and ceremonies in the historical material and cultural tradition passed down from the times. On the other hand, that would have been quite a long time ago. *shrug*
Near the conclusion of the article the authors make a comment which doesn't necessarily carry any weight as evidence, but at least seems like a sensible, skeptical way to think about the issue...quote:
Cannabis and the Christ: Jesus Used Marijuana...
Although the idea that Jesus and his disciples used a healing cannabis ointment may seem far-fetched at first, when weighed against the popular alternative (one that is held by millions of believers) that Jesus performed his healing miracles magically, through the power invested in him by the omnipotent Lord of the Universe, the case for ancient accounts of medicinal cannabis seems a far more likely explanation.
|
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
|
|
llDayo
New Member
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2005 : 12:26:51 [Permalink]
|
| Yeah, GeeMack, that's one reason I actually posted the article. It seemed to have been well researched from a scholarly point of view to evidence their claim. It was well cited a detailed, something you wouldn't normally see if this were just some bizarre conspiracy nut claim. I wonder how something like this would go in a christian forum, lol! Anyone wanna try it? |
|
|
|
pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2005 : 12:51:58 [Permalink]
|
| The phrase "lead balloon" comes to mind... |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
|
|
|
|
Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2005 : 14:10:53 [Permalink]
|
Though I haven't read the whole thing, one key to the whole argument seems to be this:quote:
The ancient recipe for this anointing oil, recorded in the Old Testament book of Exodus (30: 22-23) included over nine pounds of flowering cannabis tops, Hebrew "kaneh-bosm", extracted into a hind (about 6.5 litres) of olive oil, along with a variety of other herbs and spices. The ancient chosen ones were literally drenched in this potent cannabis holy oil.
But the author's only argument that the Hebrew word in question, "Kaneh-bosm," is cannabis is that it "sounds remarkably similar to the modern cannabis."
Pretty weak, if you ask me. The author should note also that the correct transliteration of the word in question is not kaneh, but rather qaneh.
Contextually, this plan seems to grow in marshes. Does pot grow in marshy areas? I don't know. I'll do some more looking... |
|
|
|
Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2005 : 14:20:27 [Permalink]
|
And to add to that, it should be noted that qaneh is a distinct word from bosem, which means "sweet". Moreover, contra the author, who writes of the word that "the 'm' [of the word bosem] is a pronounced plural," the 'm' is in fact part of the word.
Of course, because the author's main argument is that cannabis sounds like the Hebrew word used in the verse cited, he has to use bad philology to explain away the damning 'm'-- after all, cannabis sounds less like qaneh-bosem than *qaneh-bos.
(For references, see this site. Note that the word never appears without the final -m (in Hebrew that box-looking shape), and note its relation to the word balsam, which, of course, always has the -m.
|
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2005 : 21:35:59 [Permalink]
|
llDayo, "alternative histories" are chock-full of articles with tons of references, and look very scholarly. It's a thin veneer, however, that tries to hide poor arguments along the lines of the "sounds like" gambit Cune points out. Note that the Greek word, "kannabis," probably sounds a lot more like "cannabis" (the latinized version of kannabis) than does "qaneh-bosm." Sounds-like arguments have been used to try to prove all sorts of stuff, and they generally fail to be convincing without a detailed etymology.
Of course, since we have Cuneiformist here, he might be able to tell us more than he already has:Another quite early reference [to marijuana] appears on certain cuneiform tablets unearthed in the Royal Library of Ashurbanipal, an Assyrian king. Ashurbanipal lived about 650 B.C.; but the cuneiform descriptions of marijuana in his library "are generally regarded as obvious copies of much older texts"...
— Marijuana in the Old World Next up: the word "pruritis" is the medical term for itching. It is not, as the authors state, a disease name. The fact that they reference their definition of pruritis being a synonym for atopic dermatitis to a book called Marihuana: The Forbidden Medicine, instead to any of a vast number of medical dictionaries shows that the author's scholarship was less than exemplary. Also, a quick scan of Leviticus 13 (NIV) also shows that the idea that it speaks about a single disease (be it atopic dermatitis or Hansen's disease) is ludicrous.
Finally, the concluding paragraph pointed out by GeeMack is simply a false dichotomy. The alternatives presented by the authors are that either Jesus used magic or Jesus used pot. Arbitrarily constraining the choices like that is a sure sign that the authors were, indeed, attempting to fit the evidence to their ideas, just as GeeMack suggests. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2005 : 22:13:06 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Of course, since we have Cuneiformist here, he might be able to tell us more than he already has:[bq]Another quite early reference [to marijuana] appears on certain cuneiform tablets unearthed in the Royal Library of Ashurbanipal, an Assyrian king. Ashurbanipal lived about 650 B.C.; but the cuneiform descriptions of marijuana in his library "are generally regarded as obvious copies of much older texts"...
Well, unfortunately, the reference in question is only to one R Walton's Marijuana, America's New Drug Problem, which was published in 1938. It goes without saying that anything published about such things before 1970 is questionable at best. So we should all be skeptical (!) about the citation. I'll do some searching, though I doubt I'll be able to find the book in question. And if I were, would it actualy be able to correctly cite the inscription? We'll see, I guess...
|
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2005 : 22:49:54 [Permalink]
|
| Sheesh, Cune, can't you just go to the cuneiform card-catalog, flip to "Ashurbanipal" and read the damn tablets for yourself? What good is having a freakin' cuneiform expert on the staff here at SFN if the first thing he wants to look up is some English text from 20th-f'ing-century? You think we hired you for your pretty face? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2005 : 02:13:15 [Permalink]
|
| Interesting history of the plant at this site. I have no idea how credible the site is. But it seems that one thing to look at would be other sources that either corroborate the info in the article or refute it. |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2005 : 05:54:24 [Permalink]
|
 |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
|
R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2005 : 10:55:45 [Permalink]
|
Fabulus Furry Freak Brothers!. Far out, filthy!
So maybe the J-man was the original freak brother? It would explain a lot. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2005 : 11:45:20 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by R.Wreck
Fabulus Furry Freak Brothers!. Far out, filthy!
So maybe the J-man was the original freak brother? It would explain a lot.
I knew someone would pick up on that!
Actually, it is concievable that Jesus did indeed use cannibis in some form, probably eaten as hand-rubbed hashist. It has been shown that even in the most primitive of societies, medicine and healing have a top priority. Marijuana was available in the regon at the time, as was the opium poppy. Both of these are naturals for shamanistic healers.
And yes, it might explain a great deal as well, about the writers of various religious texts.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
