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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 01/05/2006 : 09:31:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by Bibleland
Thanks Guys for the advice on how to post pics. Would you recommend a good site for me to an on-line post pics that I'd like to place here.
Something wrong with www.biblelandstudios.com ?quote:
BTW what would the most convincing evidence against evolution? Actually what type of evidence would be the most convincing? Report, Artifact/fossil, other?
A devonian bunny would be a neat trick, but Theobald's article has so much more than that.
Alas, I doubt if we will ever see that Legendary Lagomorph of the Devonian, and not merely because Dimetrodon ate him. No mammal existed in those days, although the thecodonts, such as the afore-mentioned Dimetrodon, were beginning to work on it.
But try and convince these folks:
quote:
Posted on Thu, Jan. 05, 2006
Creationists claim fossils refute scienceBy Jim StrattonTHE ORLANDO SENTINELCRYSTAL RIVER, Fla. - Most paleontologists look into the mouth of an allosaurus and see a prehistoric eating machine with a jaw full of flesh-tearing teeth.
Peter DeRosa peers into that mouth and sees the hand of God.
Working from a business park about 80 miles north of Tampa, DeRosa and his family are hammering away at two bedrock principles of modern science: evolution and the notion that Earth is about 4 billion years old.
The DeRosas are part of a small but growing band of creationists using dinosaurs -- the icons of an ancient Earth -- to argue that the world is only 6,000 years old.
The DeRosas' tool of choice? The fossilized bones of Ebenezer the allosaurus and other creatures cramming their makeshift laboratory.
"It's very clear in Scripture. God's word is true," said DeRosa, 22. "Everything we've found supports that."
The DeRosas run Creation Expeditions, a ministry that relies on dinosaurs to spread what they say is the infallible word of the Bible. The family operation includes Peter, his brother Mark, sister Leah and parents Pete and Linda.
The DeRosas have no formal training but have studied dinosaurs and fossils for more than a decade.
The DeRosas' digs have produced impressive results. They have uncovered a 22-foot-long allosaurus -- a smaller relative of the tyrannosaurus rex -- and a 15-foot-tall edmontosaurus, a plant-eating, duck-billed dinosaur.
The DeRosas and their movement, in essence, are trying to turn science against itself. By digging up fossils and interpreting their finds, some creationists hope to convince others that evolution and a 4-billion-year-old Earth are nonsensical notions unsupported by the data.
A whole decade..... Be still my rolling eyes! They seem to be pretty good at excavation, although it would have been better if these specimens had been studied in situ by the pros, first.
The long and short of it is that the deRosas began with a conjecture and are trying to fit the evidence to it, rather than the other 'way 'round. Science, that ain't.
The problem is, I think, that so many (all?) of the creationists are trying to prove a point, rather than gain knowledge. In this, they will fail because without knowledge and expertise in the geologic sciences, that point -- YEC -- can't be even supported, much less proven.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2006 : 10:04:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy...
The long and short of it is that the deRosas began with a conjecture and are trying to fit the evidence to it, rather than the other 'way 'round. Science, that ain't.
The problem is, I think, that so many (all?) of the creationists are trying to prove a point, rather than gain knowledge.
Oh, you mean like...quote:
Originally posted by Bibleland...
The mission of the site and museum can be summed up in these few words:
Examine Evidence
Conclude Genesis
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2006 : 10:29:41 [Permalink]
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| This should be interesting. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2006 : 11:07:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bibleland
BTW what would the most convincing evidence against evolution?
How about focusing on "Evidence supporting Genesis". |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2006 : 12:41:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
How about focusing on "Evidence supporting Genesis".
If they could do that, they would have done it long ago.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Bibleland
Skeptic Friend
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2006 : 12:43:01 [Permalink]
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| I agree! Let me rephrase the question. What evidence would prove Genesis? |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2006 : 12:51:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
Originally posted by Bibleland
BTW what would the most convincing evidence against evolution?
How about focusing on "Evidence supporting Genesis".
Some creationists do. They find a couple of things that could support the genesis account but totally disregard the many more things that don't. For example, molluscs on top of a mountain could be consistent with a world-wide flood but if such a flood had occured we would not expect to see fossils ordered the way we do in the strata. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2006 : 13:26:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bibleland
I agree! Let me rephrase the question. What evidence would prove Genesis?
Easy one!
Geologic evidence that a global flood occured and/or the verfied location of the hulk of the Ark with independant carbon-dating as to the age of it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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trogdor
Skeptic Friend
198 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2006 : 13:28:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bibleland
I agree! Let me rephrase the question. What evidence would prove Genesis?
um... how about these:
-- all carbon dates younger than 6000 years old.
-- no starlight from more than 6000 light years away.
--all animals showing up at the same time in geological strata.
you best get crackin' 'cause you got some work ahead of you.
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all eyes were on Ford Prefect. some of them were on stalks.
-Douglas Adams |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2006 : 13:37:12 [Permalink]
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Before that hippie-pinko-commie Jesus walked the earth, God used to appear to humans quite frequently it is written. So...
God pulling an "OT" and showing up in His favorite non-human-smiting form (hand writing on a wall, pillar of fire, The Burning Bush(tm), etc.) and telling all of us once and for all. He would have to be on world wide television on multiple feeds (not just FOX "news").
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by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2006 : 13:44:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Before that hippie-pinko-commie Jesus walked the earth, God used to appear to humans quite frequently it is written. So...
God pulling an "OT" and showing up in His favorite non-human-smiting form (hand writing on a wall, pillar of fire, The Burning Bush(tm), etc.) and telling all of us once and for all. He would have to be on world wide television on multiple feeds (not just FOX "news").
Well, we already have a burning Bush, or at least a smoldering one.... 
I'd like to see the foundation remains of the Tower of Bable. As described, it must have had a massive one.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2006 : 14:02:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bibleland
What evidence would prove Genesis?
The location of the cherubim and "a flaming sword which turned every which way" would be a good start. I mean, the Bible doesn't record that Eden was wiped off the planet, does it? The Tree of Life, one would think, would be pretty stout, and cherubim and a flaming sword wouldn't have been killed by a flood, as they never had "the breath of life within them."
A snake which can speak Hebrew would be good, too. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2006 : 14:14:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Well, we already have a burning Bush, or at least a smoldering one....
I'd like to see the foundation remains of the Tower of Bable. As described, it must have had a massive one.
What was the original language for the big shakedown at Bable? Any evidence of one language spoken by all people until a certain point, then a bunch of languages?
But, if I remember the Bable incident was before the Flood. So, how did all the languages re-appear back on the earth after the flood?
My head hurts.
<edit to fix quote> |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 01/05/2006 14:14:51 |
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Bibleland
Skeptic Friend
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2006 : 14:40:43 [Permalink]
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So the finding of a 600 ft. barge up top Ararat that tests in at 5,000 years would turn a few of your heads?
Finding certain fossils in strata that should not be there fo ok too? But it would have to be a gross find and ample evidence to support it?
BTW Babel was 100 years after the flood. The Tree of Life is perserved on display in Heaven located in the center of the New Jerusalem (see Revelation ch. 21 and 22). The two cherub with the flaming swords are back on their day job as covering cherubs on opposit sides of the Throne of God.
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