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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
 Posted - 01/12/2006 : 13:58:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
How I wish a third party worthy of consideration would come along -- no Snake, sorry; while I think the world of you, I hate the fucking Libertarians as well. And I ain't all that fond of the Greens either, comes to that.
Let's start a new party. We can call it "The Party of Reason." It will be comprised mostly of skeptics, intellectuals, and scientists. Our mascot will be an owl.
The party symbol can be borrowed from the comic strip Non-Sequitor. The word "Duh" with a red "no" symbol around it. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2006 : 15:27:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Wimpy Democrats. They're just gonna let this guy through.
Here's a guy who joined the ROTC during the Vietnam war days,
Excuse me but what does that have to do with anything? Unless you know why he did and would that matter anyway? Perhaps some of your other statements about him might have 'some' relevance, but bringing up issues that don't is not credible.
Nothing. I was in a mood.  My impression of this guy was spilling out rather than that I was making specific points.
This guy, at that time, supported all the backward thinking ideas of government is good, can do no wrong, those commie pinko hippies are bad, women and minorities have nothing to complain about and so on. So far, nothing I've heard in the hearings changes my opinion that this is indeed where this man stands philosophically.
At the time of the Vietnam War protests, people like Alito were of a completely different mindset than I was. They didn't recognize or didn't care about discrimination, they didn't think the government would lie to the public, or would make decisions based on self interest rather than public interest or if they did believe the latter they agreed with the self interest and not the public interest.
From all the trends in this guys rulings that have been pointed out, he fits the stereotype I had of him.
I would not make a good judge, I am very prejudiced about the issues noted here. This guy is just as prejudiced in the opposite direction.
BTW, he seems like a very nice intelligent person. He's likable. And I doubt he has overt prejudice such as a bigot or anything like that. But I bet he makes assumptions about people in his court or clients in the cases that reflect extreme prejudice about them that Alito then applies to their motives, interpretation of the case facts and so on. The black woman wasn't passed over for a promotion because she was black, the lawsuit is just a disgruntled employee. That kind of prejudice. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2006 : 15:46:35 [Permalink]
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Humbert wrote: Right, because no one but a handful of freaks is concerned about basing political policies on sound science, protecting civil liberties, or in maintaining the separation of church and state.
Pretty much. At least when you compare us with the population at large.
Fundamentalist Christians can't even start their own party, and they far outnumber politically active skeptics and intellectuals.
Have you gone to any conferences/meetings/events held by groups that are comprised of mostly skeptics and intellectuals and held in the name of science and reason? A bunch don't even want to get involved in politics, just talk about philosophy and science instead. And of the ones who are into political activism, there's plenty of loud, rude, oddballs. Fortunately there are always a few charismatic people like Lori Lipman Brown (the lobbyist for the Secular Coalition for America), but such people are few and far between. Not to mention that skeptics and intellectuals by their nature are highly individualistic, and therefore have a hard enough time getting together on any single issue (the petty, internal debates can be maddening!), much less holding together a cohesive political party.
I also think you sorely underestimate anti-intellectualism. It has a pretty long and strong history in America. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2006 : 02:25:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
quote:
Originally posted by Snake
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Wimpy Democrats. They're just gonna let this guy through.
Here's a guy who joined the ROTC during the Vietnam war days,
Excuse me but what does that have to do with anything? Unless you know why he did and would that matter anyway? Perhaps some of your other statements about him might have 'some' relevance, but bringing up issues that don't is not credible.
Nothing. I was in a mood. My impression of this guy was spilling out rather than that I was making specific points.
This guy, at that time, supported all the backward thinking ideas of government is good, can do no wrong, those commie pinko hippies are bad, women and minorities have nothing to complain about and so on. So far, nothing I've heard in the hearings changes my opinion that this is indeed where this man stands philosophically.
The black woman wasn't passed over for a promotion because she was black, the lawsuit is just a disgruntled employee. That kind of prejudice.
Oh, ok. BUT, haven't you heard, you are not allowed to say 'nothing will change your mind' on this website. Kil will not like that!
As for 'the black woman', when one does not know the fact to a case and is not on the jury to hear what's in evidence then we can not know all the conditions of a lawsuit. Why assume what might not be true (because it's the popular or PC thing to do)? I would question if there aren't more lawsuits from the disgruntled than those actualy being passed over for real prejudice. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 01:44:28 [Permalink]
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Democrat wimps are getting trounced again and do nothing to get their talking points out on the airwaves. Now there is a commercial touting things like, "I'm a Democrat and I'm ashamed of the treatment my party gave Alito". Give me a break! This is bad and there is nothing but a whimper of a reply to this crap.
This is off topic but it's too early for a Hilary vs Conde thread so just consider it a continuing rant of the ineffective Democrats....
And Hilary is getting attacked for her stupid comment about plantations. That was an odd thing to say. I heard a piece on NPR that really irked me comparing Conde Rice to Hilary. Conde, a self made woman coming from a background of poverty, while Hilary is only where she is today because she married Bill. The piece claimed to be describing their differences. So apparently if you are married to someone who overshadows you, then nothing you've ever done will show up. But if you suck up to Georgie and get where you are that way, then you are a self made woman. No mention of the total incompetence Conde has shown in her two cabinet positions. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 12:46:48 [Permalink]
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I've got to agree with the spirit of The Rude Pundit's quote. One remembers things like this. Especially a guy who I saw in the confirmation hearings quoting complex legal cases in stunning detail to impress the senators. Alito proves the reality of Selective Memory Syndrome.
The very fact that the religious right is supporting Alito convinces me that he's given them convincing assurances of his loyalty.
Democrats seems to be afraid to use the filibuster because of the Republican "nuclear option" threat to eliminate the filibuster itself. If not for the issue of the swing vote in the Supreme Court at a time where abortion rights, church-state separation, torture of suspects, and unwarranted spying upon citizens are all at stake, then what is the filibuster being saved for?
This is an historic watershed. I'm a long-time Democrat, but I will never again support my senators Feinstein or Boxer if they don't use all the ammo they have to defeat Alito. No filibuster, no vote.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/18/2006 12:48:59 |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 14:12:10 [Permalink]
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Thanks, HalfMooner. Hope you don't mind that I've used your comment as a starting point for some letters I've written to my senators.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 16:37:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Hope you don't mind that I've used your comment as a starting point for some letters I've written to my senators.
I'd be honored. And thanks for asking. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2006 : 00:54:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
And Hilary is getting attacked for her stupid comment about plantations. That was an odd thing to say. I heard a piece on NPR that really irked me comparing Conde Rice to Hilary. Conde, a self made woman coming from a background of poverty, while Hilary is only where she is today because she married Bill. The piece claimed to be describing their differences. So apparently if you are married to someone who overshadows you, then nothing you've ever done will show up. But if you suck up to Georgie and get where you are that way, then you are a self made woman. No mention of the total incompetence Conde has shown in her two cabinet positions.
Yes, I heard something about what Hilary said. She is stupid.
But I don't think she's where she is because of Bill, exactly. Maybe yes in a way but she would have been there anyway one way or another in time. She's pushy like a 18 wheeler. She won't be stopped. I hope so but she'll keep trying.
Ms. Rice on the other hand, I no nothing of her background just that she was some kind of professor at a college, I think. However what I see is a person who is a robot. Nothing up stairs, in the brain department. She's almost like watching G. Bush. He's so funny like a puppet on a string, can't do anything for himself just repeats responses. She too seems to be reciting rather than thinking. Maybe she's just nervous and appears that way but that's what I see and it's no vote of confidence as a leader to look like that.
This country (USA) has gone so far down hill and if those two run against each other, I wonder how much farther we can go. I'm getting a pain in my head as I write. |
| Edited by - Snake on 01/19/2006 00:57:35 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2006 : 03:22:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
...So far, nothing I've heard in the hearings changes my opinion that this is indeed where this man stands philosophically.
...
Oh, ok. BUT, haven't you heard, you are not allowed to say 'nothing will change your mind' on this website. Kil will not like that!
Pay attention. 
quote:
As for 'the black woman', when one does not know the fact to a case and is not on the jury to hear what's in evidence then we can not know all the conditions of a lawsuit. Why assume what might not be true (because it's the popular or PC thing to do)? I would question if there aren't more lawsuits from the disgruntled than those actualy being passed over for real prejudice.
You need to read the hearing transcripts or look at the case. Alito stretched his decision into that territory but that wasn't the grounds of the appeal. It had something to do with being allowed to even bring the case to a jury or something more along that line. And Alito had the only dissenting opinion so the other judges didn't agree with his reasoning.
Alito differed from his colleagues by something like 70% of the time compared to other judges who averaged differences 50% of the time and Alito sided with corporations and government entities like prosecutors something like 80% of the time again well over the % that his colleagues sided with the powerful against the individual. I don't recall the actual numbers but the proportionate differences were significant. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 01/19/2006 03:22:54 |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2006 : 13:37:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
quote:
Originally posted by Snake
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
...So far, nothing I've heard in the hearings changes my opinion that this is indeed where this man stands philosophically.
...
Oh, ok. BUT, haven't you heard, you are not allowed to say 'nothing will change your mind' on this website. Kil will not like that!
Pay attention.
quote:
As for 'the black woman', when one does not know the fact to a case and is not on the jury to hear what's in evidence then we can not know all the conditions of a lawsuit. Why assume what might not be true (because it's the popular or PC thing to do)? I would question if there aren't more lawsuits from the disgruntled than those actualy being passed over for real prejudice.
You need to read the hearing transcripts or look at the case. Alito stretched his decision into that territory but that wasn't the grounds of the appeal. It had something to do with being allowed to even bring the case to a jury or something more along that line. And Alito had the only dissenting opinion so the other judges didn't agree with his reasoning.
Alito differed from his colleagues by something like 70% of the time compared to other judges who averaged differences 50% of the time and Alito sided with corporations and government entities like prosecutors something like 80% of the time again well over the % that his colleagues sided with the powerful against the individual. I don't recall the actual numbers but the proportionate differences were significant.
We don't understand why you said "Pay attention"?
Next, a judge does not have to agree with anyone. It's his opinion according to how he views the law. Just because 70% think one way doesn't mean that's how it should be. There is no god but 90% of people think there is!
BTW, last night on TV I saw 3 women complaining about a company who they say discriminated against them, there's a law suit involved if I'm not mistaken. They see is one way, the company sees it another. I thought they protested a bit much. Crying doesn't become an officer of a company. I think they don't want to admit they are not capable of doing the job so they have to blame someone or possible they were just not wanted. However, to make a judgment in law I'd have to see what they are presenting in their defense. Whatever I'd decide if I were on the jury might not be what others would conclude. That's life! |
| Edited by - Snake on 01/19/2006 13:40:50 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2006 : 14:20:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Democrat wimps are getting trounced again and do nothing to get their talking points out on the airwaves. Now there is a commercial touting things like, "I'm a Democrat and I'm ashamed of the treatment my party gave Alito". Give me a break! This is bad and there is nothing but a whimper of a reply to this crap.
This is off topic but it's too early for a Hilary vs Conde thread so just consider it a continuing rant of the ineffective Democrats....
And Hilary is getting attacked for her stupid comment about plantations. That was an odd thing to say. I heard a piece on NPR that really irked me comparing Conde Rice to Hilary. Conde, a self made woman coming from a background of poverty, while Hilary is only where she is today because she married Bill. The piece claimed to be describing their differences. So apparently if you are married to someone who overshadows you, then nothing you've ever done will show up. But if you suck up to Georgie and get where you are that way, then you are a self made woman. No mention of the total incompetence Conde has shown in her two cabinet positions.
But who is she getting trounced by? Not the black community. It's the right wing idiots like O'Reily and Limbaugh. The comment cut the Republican extremists to the bone. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2006 : 17:44:58 [Permalink]
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| I haven't heard enough of the news in the last day or two to know what the reaction to the plantation comment has been. But the comparison of Conde to Hilary was on NPR! And frankly, it was poorly done using the cliche' stereotypes that any woman who has a prominent husband couldn't possible have made any of her own contributions to her own personal career. And it ignored the huge failings of Ms Rice in her positions on the Cabinet. Frankly I found the piece very slanted. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2006 : 14:29:38 [Permalink]
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Here's the letter I wrote to several news editors at the request of Moveon.
A letter to Republicans about Alito
Dear Editor and your Republican readership,
I watched all of the Judicial Committee's hearing on Alito's nomination. Contrary to Republican talking points which the TV news media so readily repeats in sound bite after sound bite, the Democrats did indeed have cause to question this man as they did. Regardless of the college clubs he was in and has conveniently forgotten, regardless of his stand on abortion, he has ruled against individual rights in a substantially greater proportion than the vast majority of his peers.
Republicans should take note. The religious right fringe likes Alito because they want a court that allows government into your bedroom as well. They prefer a court that backs government legislation regardless of how far it goes to control your social behavior and Alito is their man.
Legislation against abortion and gays today may not bother you, but with Alito on the court, be prepared to also face legislation tomorrow against unions, worker's rights, worker safety, and against requirements to keep pension contracts without the court providing it's part in the checks and balances equation our country was founded on. Don't forget it isn't you writing that legislation, it isn't your pastor, it's corporate money and influence. That's who you are giving up contol to, not the moral police.
Anyone else wishing to contribute a letter of there own, go to the moveon.org site.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 10:53:00 [Permalink]
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| Looks more and more like Alito will be confirmed, unless before the vote, he manages a major screw up, like saying "Thank God the Judicial Committee didn't ask me about my membership in NAMBLA" near an open mic. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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