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dimossi
Skeptic Friend
USA
141 Posts |
 Posted - 11/13/2001 : 09:49:48
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Show on Exorcisms on Dateline NBC tonight (Tuesday at 10PM EST).
This should be amusing.
After watching it, lets hear some comments back here.
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." [Albert Einstein]
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James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2001 : 19:49:07 [Permalink]
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I don't know about anyone else, but I lasted all of about 5-6 minutes before I changed channels to watch Charmed on TNT.
"Hey Butt-Head check this book out! There's a talking snake, a naked chick, then some guy puts a leaf on his SCHLONG!!" [Beavis and Butt-Head Do America] |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2001 : 01:16:51 [Permalink]
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I watched it, but then again I had a good book to read. (P.J. O'Roarke, The CEO of the Sofa)
The show sucked. I have no doubt the "exorcists" were sincere, if somewhat misguided. A gentleman later in the show said that these people, perhaps unintentionally give the patient clues as to how they're supposed to behave.
Now for the "possessed". Can't decided whether he's a con artist, or we have some sort of Munchausen thing going on here. I'm leaning toward mental illness. A scam usually involves gain of some sort, and I didn't get that angle. Ah, but the mental illness, especially as pertains to Munchausen, I see as likely. Here's this guy, Mr. Ordinary-To-the-Point-of-Inducing-Narcolepsy, suddenly has all these people interested in HIM!! They spent a whole day with him. TV cameras, interviews, lasting concern from the excorists. Wow. No wonder he began having problems again after the excorism was over. His "high" wore off. If he were to call one of the earlier participants and admit he was feeling a little depressed, he'd probably get taken out to dinner. However, if he says the "demons" are back, wow, he gets the whole group fussing over him. The huge question: is his behavior intentional? Can't tell. The show admitted that he had never been checked out by a mental health care professional. Most churches won't touch an excorism with a ten foot crucifix until the patient has been checked out physically and mentally. Maybe my remark about our presumed excorists was premature. Maybe they wanted to be on TV too.
While the show included skeptical comments, overall, I think skeptics were given short shrift. I hope Dr. Shermer has a review of this soon.
Lisa
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2001 : 06:43:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Show on Exorcisms on Dateline NBC tonight (Tuesday at 10PM EST).
This should be amusing.
After watching it, lets hear some comments back here.
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." [Albert Einstein]
It was kinda cute. Motivation seemed to be the same as fundie faith healers. See the healing power of GAWD! My wife couldn't stop laughing. I was just floored with the stupidity of others. At least they had sceptical viewpoints. Attributing the change in personality to suggestion instead of spirituality.
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dimossi
Skeptic Friend
USA
141 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2001 : 07:18:31 [Permalink]
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Well I watched the whole show and I didn't know if I should be sad or if I should laugh my ass off. To me it is obvious that the man claiming to be possessed is just seeking attention and human contact. He had to be "exercised" 6 more times after the first time. Looks like whenever he started getting depressed again he would seek another "exorcism". The guy definitely has issues. The only demons this guy had were "depression demons".
For the group of Xians that were working to remove the "depression demons" from the patient, this was a power trip. You could see it in their faces, just think how powerful they must feel to be able to remove demons from peeps and thus saving their "soul". It saddens me to know that these people still blindly perform such prehistoric rituals. And as the one skeptical priest had said, this is just another version of therapy but can also be dangerous. How dangerous can it be? Well, well, look what was in the news today: NY Woman Kills Daughter in Exorcism
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." [Albert Einstein] |
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Donnie B.
Skeptic Friend
417 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2001 : 07:40:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
How dangerous can it be? Well, well, look what was in the news today: NY Woman Kills Daughter in Exorcism
Wow, what a sad story. Right up there with that "rebirthing" killing in California.
-- Donnie B.
Brian: "No, no! You have to think for yourselves!" Crowd: "Yes! We have to think for ourselves!" |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2001 : 12:39:51 [Permalink]
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I thought it was sad that the most skeptical person they could find for the show was a catholic priest. Actually, he was pretty cool. I don't think he was buying the act.
Lisa
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room. |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2001 : 18:16:54 [Permalink]
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Read thge story....sad, sad, sad....Sometimes I really believe humans should have to pass some kind of test (not intelligence, just damn common sense) before they can breed. There is more than just physical child abuse...mental abuse is just as bad if not worse.
"Damn you people. Go back to your shanties." --- Shooter McGavin |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2001 : 00:11:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Can't decided whether he's a con artist, or we have some sort of Munchausen thing going on here.
I finaly got around to watching the tape I made of the show, today. Pretty much agree with Lisa, here. I never heard of Munchausens used in conjunction with a mental illness! Were you being funny Lisa? But hey, why not, the senario fits.
I too thought it was funny but couldn't stop watching, it was looking at an accident, staring in amazment or disbelief. The humorious part was the comment during the interview with the psychiatrist. The Jew turned Born Again or whatever he was. He thought there's nothing wrong with exorcisms.
The interviewer said, if a psychiatrist heard what you said they'd say you need a psychiatrist. ''But wait, YOU are a psychiatrist.''
Oh, and I also think it's too bad that there were people watching who really believed what was going on. As much as I hate psychiatrists, sometimes I wish I was one. I so want to know what goes on in peoples minds. Why can't they understand that nonsence like that is a waste of time?
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art.
Edited by - snake on 11/16/2001 00:20:55 |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2001 : 00:42:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
I never heard of Munchausens used in conjunction with a mental illness! Were you being funny Lisa? But hey, why not, the senario fits.
This refers to telling outrageous stories, tall tales and lies to garner attention. Munchause by proxy is when a parent or guardian inflicts harm upon a child for attention.
Here's where it gets dicey. Does that guy really believe he's possessed? I think we'll all agree he's a few fries short of a happy meal, but to what degree?
Lisa
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2001 : 02:12:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
This refers to telling outrageous stories, tall tales and lies to garner attention. Munchause by proxy is when a parent or guardian inflicts harm upon a child for attention.
Yes, but the harmful things they do are physical, like putting germs in a sore to make a child sick or suffocating them to the point of passing out and then pretend to be a hero by saving them. That's the part that didn't exactly fit but the people 'saving' that guy from the devil could be an example, I guess. That's what I meant.
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Here's where it gets dicey. Does that guy really believe he's possessed? I think we'll all agree he's a few fries short of a happy meal, but to what degree?
Lisa
If he believes he's possessed then it's not really Munchausens because he 'really' needs the exorcism. He's not the brunt of a terrible hoax, he's part of it. Munchausen victims don't know they are being 'attacted'.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2001 : 01:52:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
How dangerous can it be? Well, well, look what was in the news today: NY Woman Kills Daughter in Exorcism
Wow, what a sad story. Right up there with that "rebirthing" killing in California.
-- Donnie B.
Brian: "No, no! You have to think for yourselves!" Crowd: "Yes! We have to think for ourselves!"
Colorado. The second person involved in the case goes on trial in December.
It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either of them. -Mark Twain |
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