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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
 Posted - 01/18/2006 : 02:20:51 [Permalink]
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| As far as religion rising, it certainly is in the USA. My guess is it's part of a cycle of ups and downs. Perhaps 2 steps forward, one back and we are on the one back right now. I can only hope it isn't the reverse of that description and we are on the two back right now. Or I hope it isn't the religious right wing's discovery of mass marketing and complete control of propaganda or the rich and powerful's' discovery of how to manipulate the religious as their personal army. Either of those or a combination of those last two certainly seem to be part of the equation and a worrisome thing as well. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 01/18/2006 02:22:15 |
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 04:18:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
As far as religion rising, it certainly is in the USA. My guess is it's part of a cycle of ups and downs. Perhaps 2 steps forward, one back and we are on the one back right now. I can only hope it isn't the reverse of that description and we are on the two back right now. Or I hope it isn't the religious right wing's discovery of mass marketing and complete control of propaganda or the rich and powerful's' discovery of how to manipulate the religious as their personal army. Either of those or a combination of those last two certainly seem to be part of the equation and a worrisome thing as well.
Here in Australia, we have some pretty ambitious religious groups, specifically some evangelical christian ones, but I don't believe that it's as prevalent here as in the USA. I'll admit it's a fairly qualititative assessment, but my impression is that religion as a whole is not on the increase in any major way, but foggy thinking in general is. I've summarised the following statistics from the Australian Bureau of Statistics web site. Numbers are percentages unless stated otherwise.
Source URL here
"No religion" is hovering around the 15% mark, I'll be very interested to see where the next one goes, after a small decrease from 1996 to 2001. Our national census is taken every 5 years, the next one is due this coming August. I'm not sure what the numbers would be, but I suspect a healthy proportion of those who ticked one of the mainstream christian check boxes on their forms probably only did so out of habit/tradition. A statistic I'd like to see is how many attend church or perform other worship related rituals/prayers on a regular basis.
What I think is very much on the increase is new age style woolly thinking. I'm both shocked and amazed at otherwise rational people relating stories of their iridology, feng shui, qi-gong or numerology experiences. It's much hipper to be "spiritual" these days than religious. That belief is reinforced when you see "celebritites" interviewed these days. Most won't mention any specific religion (they can't risk offending any of their fans from competing camps after all), but will happily produce a diatribe on the 6 hour consultation they had with their personal spiritual guide before their last major achievement.
(Edit: Fixed some typos, and also realised this may be a little OT, or at least a slight highjack. I was replying to beskeptigal's comments, but I wont be offended if someone want's to bump this off to another thread). |
John's just this guy, you know. |
| Edited by - JohnOAS on 01/21/2006 02:58:36 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 04:58:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
But religion seems to only be growing.
I understand that it seems to be, but again, more adults realize that prayer doesn't pay the bills, that demons don't cause disease, etc. They go to work and they go to the doctor. They say they believe things, but when it's time to do the laundry, they do the laundry. Yes, some still take drugs, some still take religion, but it's all very shallow for most. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2006 : 11:57:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
...They say they believe things, but when it's time to do the laundry, they do the laundry...
I agree. Once flu becomes pneumonia, most homeopathy believers require no coaxing to take that ride to the hospital- they don't insist upon "diluting it down to a 'stronger' solution" when they start to get really miserable (those who enjoy longevity, anyway) and in general, the religious-crowds fear death just as much as the atheists, despite their alleged beliefs in (typically glorious) afterlives... and often they seem to fear it even more. There are reasons these people behave as such... I'll accept what's implied by what people do over what they blabber any day- the more incessant the blabber and unwilling they are to consider alternate views, the more that applies. And with the religious crowd, often both apply in an extreme sense. |
Ron White |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2006 : 01:24:07 [Permalink]
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| Those statistics remind me I am comparing the rise in fundamentalism over the short term but over the last 100 years, religion has decreased. Two steps forward, one step back. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2006 : 01:27:01 [Permalink]
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I want to share this great observation from the BAUT forum.
quote:
posted on the BAUT by a guy called worzel
If you have faith that jumping off a tall building will result in you going splat on the pavement below then you have all the faith that science requires.
If you have trouble believing that your own arms and legs are real then science may not be the "religion" for you.
Isn't that just a great quote?
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 01/22/2006 01:28:42 |
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2006 : 16:43:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Those statistics remind me I am comparing the rise in fundamentalism over the short term but over the last 100 years, religion has decreased. Two steps forward, one step back.
Very true. I'm hoping that your "two forward, one back" is intended to be from the skeptic's point of view 
I think it would be very difficult to ascertain to any high level of accurracy, but I believe if you could integrate the belief in all things "other-worldly" (1) you'd find the trend to be far less pronouced, unfortunately.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the "average" person would seem to be less religious than in times gone past, I just wish a higher percentage of them replaced the parts of their mind previously used for religion with something a little more positive than John Edwards re-runs.
(1): I'm sure there's a better all-encompassing term for various religions, psychic capabilities and other cults of various forms, but the word, (much like the name of the Irish author of "A Hundred and One Ways to Start a Fight"), eludes me at the moment. |
John's just this guy, you know. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2006 : 03:14:29 [Permalink]
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Hi new member, John.
Yes, forward would indeed be less religion, more science.
You bring up a point I myself have noticed. The conservatives have their religious fanatics, those of us on the left are saddled with the "alternative" crowd. I even thought it important enough to tell Al Frankin when I was getting his autograph at the Air America taping that I went to here in Seattle. They had had some person on repeating the overwhelmingly discredited claim that childhood vaccines caused autism. It wasn't Al's show, but he did play a big part setting up that station. He agreed we needed to be careful about that left wing fringe though not in those words and we didn't have time for a conversation about it. I haven't heard any more total garbage on Air America since, but then I don't listen to a couple of particularly bad programs they air.
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2006 : 04:02:21 [Permalink]
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| I don't listen to Air America regularly, but I have heard it a number of times, and I'd give it a "mixed review." I noticed more than one commercial pushing nonsense (at least one was medical quackery) and I thought this reflected poorly on them, and what it suggested their opinion of their listener's intellect might be. I was very impressed with some of their personalities and the job they'd done (including Franken, of course, Rhodes, and Schultz) while others range from mediocre to offensive... I doubt their tasteless, obnoxious, sometimes radical, and occassionally ridiculous monologues and commentaries help their cause, and could legitimately give their Right wing counterparts and adversaries plenty of ammo to paint others with liberal political views in very bad ways. At least one I heard was actually so bad the possibility that they were on the GOP payroll actually crossed my mind. It doesn't take very much of that to close many people's ears and "counterbalance" other's excellent work, but they have to start somewhere, I suppose. |
Ron White |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2006 : 14:41:27 [Permalink]
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The commercials are not censored on Air America except they won't take Walmart money. It is a reflection of that part of the left I was referring to as they all listen to Air America.
I truly dislike Mike Malone and Randi Rhodes doesn't do much for me either. They both just rant and rave to themselves for hours on end...very boring.
Al Frankin's show is great. And Stephanie Miller is great. It's the only time I sit through the 'way too numerous commercials'. Otherwise Democracy Now and public radio are all I will listen to.
Miller is on my Air America station but I haven't seen it on the website which makes me think it isn't on all Air America stations. The show is hilarious political comedy.
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 01/25/2006 14:41:45 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2006 : 15:55:00 [Permalink]
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While I see the need for Talk America to counter most of what talk radio has to offer, and of course it counters nothing if the people who listen to Rush and the gang don't tune in to Talk America as well.
My opinion is that talk radio sucks. And anyone who relies on talk radio to get their news and hone their opinions, and there are plenty of those, are not very well served… Well, unless you enjoy a good circle jerk…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2006 : 22:18:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
...are not very well served...
In general, I agree. I like hearing Bill Handel out of LA (WKFI) for some noise in the morning if I have nothing better to do than drive anyway, and he's about the best I've heard. Aside from that, the best of the rest I can take or leave (usually leave.)
beskeptical RE left talk radio, I've heard it said that the nature of conservative politics lends itself better to talk radio for some reason, and although I'm not sure why, I get a feeling there's some truth to that. Still, Franken and a few others have "pulled it off" better than I would have expected. But as I mentioned, some (Malloy whom you mentioned was one of the "bad" I was referring to) might do their cause more harm than good in some instances. |
Ron White |
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