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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 01/17/2006 : 18:33:13
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I think I'd have been arrested for refusing to obey an order.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 19:12:01 [Permalink]
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| I love the quote from the mom whose son gave up his Dragon Skin armour. "He said if anything happens to him I'm supposed to raise hell." |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 19:16:17 [Permalink]
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I read about it this morning and have some doubts. I'd like to see some official documentation on it. The military can get truly stupid at times, but I'm not sure that this is one of them.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 21:08:53 [Permalink]
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It just reminds me of the mentality of the military when I was in...
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 21:19:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
The soldier reiterated Friday's reports that any soldier who refused to comply with the order and was subsequently killed in action "could" be denied the $400,000 death benefit provided by their SGLI life insurance policy as well as face disciplinary action.
So, the Army may court-martial anyone who is killed while wearing the unapproved armor? This is getting downright bizarre. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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UncleJ
New Member
41 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 22:04:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
It just reminds me of the mentality of the military when I was in...
Have to agree with Dude.
This seems completely in line with my Army experience
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"The Church says the Earth is flat. But I know that it is round. For I have seen the shadow on the Moon. And I have more faith in a shadow than in the Church." - F. Magellan
"I can't be a missionary! I don't even believe in Jebus!" - H. Simpson |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 01:31:48 [Permalink]
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| The penalty sounds too far fetched. Since when would a local leader have sway over a death benefit? That warrants skepticism for sure. I could believe some stupid order to not use personally acquired gear given the recent scandal about 80% of the casualties being prevented had different body armor been in use. I'm sure the military has a history of putting soldiers at risk for political rather than just strategic reasons. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 07:45:47 [Permalink]
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| Just sounds like someone in the chain of command has a "relationship" with the manufacturer of the "approved" body armor, and is miffed that their competition is doing well. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 10:36:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Since when would a local leader have sway over a death benefit?
They wouldn't, and the article didn't say they did. You misread.
The "local" leader was merely passing on orders from higher up.
Apparently the orders came from the Joint Command down here in FL at McDill Airforce Base. (lots of brass from all branches down here)
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 11:41:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Just sounds like someone in the chain of command has a "relationship" with the manufacturer of the "approved" body armor, and is miffed that their competition is doing well.
More on the story today concurs that the letter didn't originate from the local leader so the story becomes more credible and Dave's thought is the most likely reason.
If true I hope this makes it into the big news category. Especially since the claims that the excess deaths were due to the impracticality of body armor covering more flesh, not the lack of body armor for financial reasons.
And this reminds me of some of the scandal when Rumsfeld said they couldn't get reinforced Humvees fast enough and a company came on the news saying nonsense, we could do it and no one has asked for ramped up production. The story faded fairly quickly. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 11:46:45 [Permalink]
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Here's an interesting blog on the subject.
Of course, it could be a government or defense contractor propaganda blog in disguise... Now that would be a conspiracy that was plausible. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 01/18/2006 11:48:45 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 12:00:01 [Permalink]
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| Speaking of defense contractors, did anyone catch the Frontline program on defense contractors last night? Absolutely mind boggling even to someone like myself who had an idea what was going on. |
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UncleJ
New Member
41 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2006 : 17:39:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
The penalty sounds too far fetched. Since when would a local leader have sway over a death benefit? That warrants skepticism for sure. I could believe some stupid order to not use personally acquired gear given the recent scandal about 80% of the casualties being prevented had different body armor been in use. I'm sure the military has a history of putting soldiers at risk for political rather than just strategic reasons.
A far-fetched penalty may not be enough reason for disbelief. I can't count the number of times somebody threatened me with a punishment that they didn't have the authority to enforce. My platoon sergeant once threatened me with court-martial when one of my friends and I were joking about me being the messiah. He said that only Jesus was the true messiah and he never wanted to hear me called the messiah again. Leaving aside the fact that my friend and I were only joking around, I informed him that he was giving me an unlawful order and that he was discriminating against my personal choice of religion. I thought he was going to smack me but he let it drop.
Anyway, even if the penalty (loss of death benefit) is not true, the order to leave the armor behind is lawful and punishable if not followed.
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"The Church says the Earth is flat. But I know that it is round. For I have seen the shadow on the Moon. And I have more faith in a shadow than in the Church." - F. Magellan
"I can't be a missionary! I don't even believe in Jebus!" - H. Simpson |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2006 : 03:16:45 [Permalink]
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Oh dear.....
Soldier required to pay for damaged body armor when wounded quote:
[First Lt. William] Rebrook told the newspaper he didn't know what happened to the bloody vest because it had been removed when he was wounded.
Looks like he will get his money back though....
What is this? Monty Python? |
| Edited by - Starman on 02/09/2006 03:19:19 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2006 : 04:42:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
Oh dear.....
Soldier required to pay for damaged body armor when wounded quote:
[First Lt. William] Rebrook told the newspaper he didn't know what happened to the bloody vest because it had been removed when he was wounded.
Looks like he will get his money back though....
What is this? Monty Python?
AmericaBlog raised some $5,400 in something like an hour to help this soldier. Good on them! Also, it appears that the Army is going to do the right thing, after being shamed into it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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