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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 01/19/2006 : 15:28:58
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I know of some who struggled with it, but I happened to find geometry very easy when I was in school. Here's an article about a research project that indicates people have a more or less innate handle on fundamental geometry. I thought it was interesting that locating objects by mapping was one of the particular areas investigated. It seems likely that the ability to understand some relativity in lines, shapes, and locations would have provided early humans with, dare I say it, some serious evolutionary advantages.quote:
Geometry May Be Hard-Wired Into Brain, Study Shows...
Amazonian hunter-gatherers who lack written language and who have never seen a math book score highly on basic tests of geometric concepts, researchers said on Thursday in a study that suggests geometry may be hard-wired into the brain.
Adults and children alike showed a clear grasp of concepts such as where the center of a circle is and the logical extension of a straight line, the researchers report in this week's issue of the journal Science.
[...]
"Munduruku children and adults spontaneously made use of basic geometric concepts such as points, lines, parallelism, or right angles to detect intruders in simple pictures, and they used distance, angle, and sense relationships in geometrical maps to locate hidden objects," they wrote.
[...]
"The spontaneous understanding of geometrical concepts and maps by this remote human community provides evidence that core geometrical knowledge, like basic arithmetic, is a universal constituent of the human mind," they concluded.
Maybe the Neanderthals went on hunting expeditions and couldn't find their way home, eventually leaving you and I as the sole surviving hominid species. Now where did I leave my GPS? 
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2006 : 18:44:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GeeMack
I know of some who struggled with it, but I happened to find geometry very easy when I was in school.
Me too. I did have to take algerbra over the 1st time (2nd time wasn't in a room with 60 students but more individual help), after that it was smooth sailing. I like the law too. Cause and effect, if, then. It's all fun.
Spelling is another matter. I also have a problem saying left and right but pointing is easy.
Wonder if brains that can't spell make up for it in seeing shapes? I did at one time want to be an architect. You don't have to spell, just draw squares. |
| Edited by - Snake on 01/21/2006 18:47:01 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2006 : 03:31:05 [Permalink]
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Something interesting: quote:
Geometry may be hard-wired into brain, study shows
Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:45 PM GMT
Printer Friendly | Email Article | RSS
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Amazonian hunter-gatherers who lack written language and who have never seen a math book score highly on basic tests of geometric concepts, researchers said on Thursday in a study that suggests geometry may be hard-wired into the brain.
Adults and children alike showed a clear grasp of concepts such as where the center of a circle is and the logical extension of a straight line, the researchers report in this week's issue of the journal Science.
Stanislas Dehaene of the College de France in Paris and colleagues tested 14 children and 30 adults of an Amazonian group called the Munduruku, and compared their findings to tests of U.S. adults and children.
"Munduruku children and adults spontaneously made use of basic geometric concepts such as points, lines, parallelism, or right angles to detect intruders in simple pictures, and they used distance, angle, and sense relationships in geometrical maps to locate hidden objects," they wrote.
"Our results provide evidence for geometrical intuitions in the absence of schooling, experience with graphic symbols or maps, or a rich language of geometrical terms."
Geometry is an ancient field and Dehaene's team postulated that it may spring from innate abilities.
Sounds pretty good.
Why wouldn't basic geometry be hard-wired in? It would, after all, be a pretty good survival trait for a biocular biped living by hunting, gathering, and scavenging.
And less complex animals also use it in a simplified form to some extent; chamelions and bats catching insects, cheetas singling out prey from the herds, tarzirs making extraordinary and accurate leaps from tree to tree.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2006 : 21:16:42 [Permalink]
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I think it would have to be so... everything we experience through touch and sight are put in spatial perspective with those tools. Hearing, smell would seem different at such an intuitive level(?) But whether symbolic expression could be independant of the way we "naturally" deal with these things might be a different question... meaning someone could be terrible at proving angle a > angle b etc. etc. but extremely talented at applying geometry in a more practical, intuitive sense?... as in an outstanding hunter, maybe? Some of the NBA players (like Magic Johnson used to) seem to have had abilities to put things in space/time perspective that went beyond what would seem "normal" (Or is it just practice and experience? I doubt it, but I don't know).
Edited to add- Kobe scored 81 points today (yes, I misquote not... "Eighty" + "One") and there had to have been some damn serious geometry involved in THAT!) |
Ron White |
| Edited by - ronnywhite on 01/23/2006 02:13:18 |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2006 : 17:11:13 [Permalink]
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I flunked plane geometry ONCE. I had A's on all of the tests, but I failed to turn in a required workbook. I felt that geometry was a snap and that I had other courses which I needed to work on that required more study. I took plane geometry over and received an A, but I have never forgiven the instructor (who was vastly overweight - huge - and who possibly had something against females who found mathematics a snap). Later I received A's in calculus at university.
ljbrs |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2006 : 17:48:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ljbrs...
I flunked plane geometry ONCE. I had A's on all of the tests, but I failed to turn in a required workbook. I felt that geometry was a snap and that I had other courses which I needed to work on that required more study.
So you demonstrated that you had a working understanding of the subject, but hadn't done the busywork so they flunked you. That really sucks. I also got A's on all my geometry tests, and I didn't do any of the homework. Fortunately my teacher realized that having a high competency in the subject was not completely associated with "doing what you're told". I got a B as my final grade in the course.
There was another subject where I got A's on all the tests, finished all the semester's assignments several weeks before they were due, and got A's on every assignment. I refused to do the mandatory extra credit work, because I had already accomplished all the requirements of the course, perfectly. I was flunked in that class. It was a basic mechanical design course, in a way, an offshoot of geometry. Some teachers are idiots.
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 00:29:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ljbrs
I flunked plane geometry ONCE. I had A's on all of the tests, but I failed to turn in a required workbook. I felt that geometry was a snap and that I had other courses which I needed to work on that required more study. I took plane geometry over and received an A, but I have never forgiven the instructor (who was vastly overweight - huge - and who possibly had something against females who found mathematics a snap). Later I received A's in calculus at university.
ljbrs
SIGH! Why do women like to use that excuse? If you thought that he did that, wasn't there a way to protest to the school?
To students and indeed employees and others sometimes there are reason why things are requested of them that seem stupid to the uninformed. Perhaps there really are reasons why a teacher wants something done the look unrelated to the subject but there is value in the lesson.
My teacher has all students do a critique of a painting, with it we are supposed to do a biography of the painter too. Last semester I couldn't find anything about the artist but had already written the report. Told my teacher. I said if she wanted, I'd do it over and choose another painting. She said, I didn't have to, it's mostly for the new students...damn, I forget the exact reason but sounded logical at the time. I think she wanted to know we could do research. My other teacher has us keep a sketch book which many protest as unnecessary but I know too that he has his reasons. They want to know you can be organized, keep good notes, etc. But down the road it's usually for the better that we were 'forced' to learn it, even when as students we already 'Know It All'
BTW, my son had a teacher who it was said, favored girls, I was the 1st to complain and stick up for my boy when he got a grade we felt he didn't deserve. I forget what happened, I think nothing was changed but at least a report was made for future people to know about. I complained so much during his years at school, I wonder if that's why the principal retired after our last semester. LOL.
And, my daughter was so good in math that she finished calculus in high school, I wondered why she wasn't taking anymore math classes, she said there were no more. I don't remember she telling me of any problems. Although I'm kind of proud of her too, she is only a girl so I didn't pay as much attention to her. If I ever talk to her again I'll ask if she did have any situations as mentioned here.
BUT, you know....it's things like that, that we all have to overcome, it makes us able to deal with life later on. |
| Edited by - Snake on 01/30/2006 00:40:43 |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 08:25:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake...
To students and indeed employees and others sometimes there are reason why things are requested of them that seem stupid to the uninformed. Perhaps there really are reasons why a teacher wants something done the look unrelated to the subject but there is value in the lesson.
Apparently ljbrs got A's on all the tests. That should indicate a thorough working knowledge of the subject. Obviously for her, doing the homework wasn't critical to learning the subject. In fact it seems to have not been important at all. Remember, the subject was "geometry", not "obedience". And whether ljbrs's assessment of the reason is accurate or not, she should not have been flunked in the course.
Some teachers are intimidated by students who have a better handle on the subject than the teacher does. Some teachers are envious of a student who has the ability to learn a subject with very little effort. Some teachers do consider obedience more important that having a thorough grasp of the subject. None of those things should have any bearing on the grade a student receives, certainly not in a geometry class, not in any kind of educational system that professes to value intellectual advancement.
Or maybe I've simply misunderstood the reason for "education". Sorry, I'll do what I'm told. Obey orders. Sieg Heil!
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 08:58:08 [Permalink]
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I had a simlar problem in college. Whilst taking computer science classes, I had two teachers with disparate views on teaching. Computer science, specifically programming, always came extremely easy to me. I started programming at the age of 10 (1980). By the time I go to college and the computer science classes there, I already knew the programming languages, structures, and theory. So, I rarely went to class, but I did all required projects.
One teacher was completely cool with that, and subsequently was my favorite professor. As long as I did the projects and tests, he could have cared less if I came to class.
The other professor could not deal with it. He had strict rules as to attendance, how the programming should be done (i.e. his way), etc. Needless to say I did not get along with him, and my grade suffered. Not because I didn't do my work and tests well. Because I lost points for not showing up to a class that did nothing for me.
Anyway, I went on to get a degree in Poli-Sci and now I run the R&D deptartment for a telecom company.
Life is a hoot! |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 09:13:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
I had a simlar problem in college. Whilst taking computer science classes, I had two teachers with disparate views on teaching. Computer science, specifically programming, always came extremely easy to me. I started programming at the age of 10 (1980). By the time I go to college and the computer science classes there, I already knew the programming languages, structures, and theory. So, I rarely went to class, but I did all required projects.
One teacher was completely cool with that, and subsequently was my favorite professor. As long as I did the projects and tests, he could have cared less if I came to class.
The other professor could not deal with it. He had strict rules as to attendance, how the programming should be done (i.e. his way), etc. Needless to say I did not get along with him, and my grade suffered. Not because I didn't do my work and tests well. Because I lost points for not showing up to a class that did nothing for me.
Anyway, I went on to get a degree in Poli-Sci and now I run the R&D deptartment for a telecom company.
Life is a hoot!
Had the same problem. I have this bad habit of really not caring for classes or projects at all. If I know something, I know something. I won't keep doing dozens of exercises just to bore the hell outta me if I don't see it as being needed. And one of my professors didn't like that I went out, explored the subject and wanted to do an assignment using a method he hadn't taught. Heh. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 19:50:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by ljbrs...
I flunked plane geometry ONCE. I had A's on all of the tests, but I failed to turn in a required workbook. I felt that geometry was a snap and that I had other courses which I needed to work on that required more study.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[B]Posted by GeeMak[B/]
[B]So you demonstrated that you had a working understanding of the subject, but hadn't done the busywork so they flunked you. That really sucks. I also got A's on all my geometry tests, and I didn't do any of the homework. Fortunately my teacher realized that having a high competency in the subject was not completely associated with "doing what you're told". I got a B as my final grade in the course.[B/]
[B]There was another subject where I got A's on all the tests, finished all the semester's assignments several weeks before they were due, and got A's on every assignment. I refused to do the mandatory extra credit work, because I had already accomplished all the requirements of the course, perfectly. I was flunked in that class. It was a basic mechanical design course, in a way, an offshoot of geometry. Some teachers are idiots.[B/]
Thanks GeeMak!
I really felt that I was an idiot for not taking the time to do the extra work. As it was I had a lot of difficult courses where there was a lot of memorization. I had a lot of other things to do [Like playing classical piano and studying classical ballet] and simply did not have enough time for everything. Geometry was a snap [for me] so I took the only course available to me. I received A's in mathematics throughout high school. I later received my Bachelor's and Master's degrees (in Liberal Arts - Humanities).
I prefer not to discuss my stupid and/or ignorant side. I shall leave that for others to speculate about. Everybody has a "stupid" side. Some of us are at times so stupid that we are unaware of it.
Incidentally, I spend a lot of time here, but seldom post (lack of time and afraid of showing my ignorance). Skeptic Friends is a great site. I enjoy reading everybody else's posts so much that I have little time for writing anything myself. Dumb....
ljbrs (my initials)
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"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
| Edited by - ljbrs on 02/10/2006 19:58:48 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 19:59:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ljbrs
I prefer not to discuss my stupid and/or ignorant side. I shall leave that for others to speculate about. Everybody has a "stupid" side. Some of us are at times so stupid that we are unaware of it.
Oh, I'm definitely "stupid" when it comes to math. I seem to remember I did ok in geometry, but really I'm poor at math in general. Sometimes just looking at numbers will make my testicles shrink up into my body and cause a deafing buzz in my brain that makes it impossible to think. I aced logic though. I do better with word problems and associations. Numbers...they're not really all that useful for anything important. 
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 02/10/2006 20:00:47 |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 21:03:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite
... everything we experience through touch and sight are put in spatial perspective with those tools. Hearing, smell would seem different at such an intuitive level(?)
Unless you are a bat or a dolphin. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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