|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 01/28/2006 : 22:17:19
|
In the spirit of Jonathan Swift, I present the following two "modest proposals" for the consideration of skeptical community:
Proposal Number 1. Lamarckism -- Teach the Controversy! :
Wherever Creationism (including its product repackaging as "Intelligent Design") is taught in tax-funded schools, we should point out that the Book of Genesis, is also "just a theory," and demand that equal billing be given to the theory of Jean-Baptiste Lamarck, the original scientific theory of evolution. Lamarckism, though ultimately proven to contain some error, was a pretty good attempt at its time to explain the emerging fossil record. It is also certainly a better scientific theory than ID, and could be thought of as a last-ditch fallback position for evolutionists in the event of further theocratic advances.
Comments, critiques?
Proposal Number 2. Embedded Debunking :
It has for some time been possible to embed hidden information in digital images, including text. How about creating some really convincing UFO, Bigfoot, ghost, fairy, etc., images though 3D imaging techniques, and distribute them in such a way that they get to those who so credulously publish such things? The special trick, of course, would be to imbed a message such as:
This image is a phony. It was created using digital image technology. We know this, because we faked it. Anyone who sees images like this should question their source. By not checking out the origin of this image, whoever has published it has proven that they either don't care enough for the truth to check out what they publish, or are deliberately preying upon your credulity. Consider this a lesson. Don't be a sucker, be a skeptic. Question all extraordinary claims! -- Skeptical Action Brigade
This project could be carried out almost completely in the open. Only the actual distribution of the images into the woo-woo parts of the Internet might require a (very little) bit of misdirection. Exposing the claims of those using the fake images would be a hoot for skeptics, and we could show proof for a change. Making fools of the purveyors of nonsense would delight skeptics. Knowing that skeptics were making fools of them might make the site operators behave a bit more carefully. Some of the credulous might benefit by proof that they could so easily be fooled.
(Note: I would hate to see skeptics making fake images that did not have disclaimers inserted. That kind of behavior -- however ironically appropriate it might feel to its perpetrators -- would just be another way of spreading crap. It would also turn good skeptics into hoaxers, thus condemning their souls to the fiery pits of Hell.)
If anyone uses a program like Bryce or Poser, I would be happy to supply UFO 3D objects, for instance, upon request. What I don't have is a way of embedding text in the final images, and for that, I would need some help.
Comments, critiques?
Anyone else have other such modest propoals?
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
|
|
JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2006 : 22:34:20 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Proposal Number 1. Lamarckism -- Teach the Controversy! :
snip...
I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm not sure that diluting bad information with even more (albeit perhaps slightly less "bad") information is a great way to go. There's a shortage of time given to science in general in schools as it is, without adding more stuff at the expense of the cirriculum already in place.
The idea of pointing out the ridiculousness of giving "equal time" to every crackpot idea out there is a good one. However, actually attempting to do so (i.e. give equal time) would be a bad thing, IMH(BC)O.
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Proposal Number 2. Embedded Debunking :
It has for some time been possible to embed hidden information in digital images, including text. How about creating some really convincing UFO, Bigfoot, ghost, fairy, etc., images though 3D imaging techniques, and distribute them in such a way that they get to those who so credulously publish such things?
snip again...
What I don't have is a way of embedding text in the final images, and for that, I would need some help.
I kind of like this idea. I'd be happy to help out with the embedding of information. I've written exactly this sort of software before, for both my own and friends use, and would be happy to prepare/proivde a version for this task. This is of course plenty of off-the-shelf steganography software out there, but by using "our own", we might be able to make it a little more difficult for the saps to detect.
|
John's just this guy, you know. |
| Edited by - JohnOAS on 01/28/2006 22:38:27 |
 |
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2006 : 22:51:43 [Permalink]
|
JohnOAS sang: quote:
The idea of pointing out the ridiculousness of giving "equal time" to every crackpot idea out there is a good one. However, actually attempting to do so (i.e. give equal time) would be a bad thing, IMH(BC)O.
Note how I hedged my bets by posting in the "Humor" section? That was a last-second cop-out on my part. (Still, my idea would be preferable in practice to Johnathan Swift's ironiclly intended "A Modest Proposal" to solve the problem of Irish over-population by putting Irish babies on English tables.)
JohnOAS further vocalized: quote:
I kind of like this idea. I'd be happy to help out with the embedding of information. I've written exactly this sort of software before, for both my own and friends use, and would be happy to prepare/proivde a version for this task. This is of course plenty of off-the-shelf steganography software out there, but by using "our own", we might be able to make it a litle more difficult for the saps to detect.
Wonderful! I'll start making fakes right away. I especially love your idea of using an embedding method that would be "proprietary." Brilliant! |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2006 : 23:16:14 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Proposal Number 1. Lamarckism -- Teach the Controversy! :
...
Comments, critiques?
Way back when I took biology in 10th grade, Lamarckism was taught, along with the reasons why it was wrong. But what's really needed is something with which one can stand up at a school-board meeting and propose which is both funny and pointedly absurd. You don't really want crap taught in school, you just want to make a point about trying to teach crap in school. The answer is something along the lines of Intelligent Falling.
Seriously, the whole "teach the controversy" thing needs to be fought by pointing out, over and over again, that the "controversy" that the intelligent design creationists want taught isn't about evolution alone, but about all forms of science. So stand up in the school-board meetings and proclaim your desire to see the controversy about heliocentrism taught. Don't let them get away with teaching that spherical-Earth dogmatic nonsense, either. Plate tectonics are utter hogwash, too. Hell, this extends beyond science, since "2+2=4" is true only for certain values of 2, Elvis' death is hotly debated, and President Clinton pointed out hoopla over the various meanings of the word "is." |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2006 : 00:00:09 [Permalink]
|
| Good thoughts, Dave! |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
|
|
|
Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2006 : 05:57:05 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Proposal Number 1. Lamarckism -- Teach the Controversy! :
...
Comments, critiques?
Way back when I took biology in 10th grade, Lamarckism was taught, along with the reasons why it was wrong.
I had it too, along with cosmogony or whatever is it's name and other several attempts until Origin of Species and Evolution. That way, our teachers patiently deconstructed every wrong hypothesis. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
|
|
|
|
moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2006 : 08:59:09 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Wherever Creationism (including its product repackaging as "Intelligent Design") is taught in tax-funded schools, we should point out that the Book of Genesis, is also "just a theory,"
How about "Just another story", "Just another fable", or "Just another creation myth". In the context of science theory is just too meaningful. It shouldn't be used to deconstruct nonsense. Call Genesis what it is.
Yeah. I know its the humor forum, but after church service I just don't feel like laughing. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2006 : 14:10:12 [Permalink]
|
moakley indicated: quote:
How about "Just another story", "Just another fable", or "Just another creation myth". In the context of science theory is just too meaningful. It shouldn't be used to deconstruct nonsense. Call Genesis what it is.
Of course I actually agree. Aside from their very real historic use as tools to create a cultural unity among a group of neolithic or bronze age tribes, about the only real thing these tales, laws, and creation myths are good for is to show us the cultural relatedness of some of the ancient cultures of the area. (For instance, I see the Ten Commandments as a Readers Digest version of the Babylonian code of Hammurabi, perhaps abridged for use by largely illiterate tribes.)
This first "proposal" was mainly written as a satirical demonstration of how serious the issues in science teaching are. It is possible, as others have better demonstrated, to use humor to fight these fools. The use of the Bible's view of a flat earth comes to mind; why is this fundamental statement of cosmology less important to Biblical literalists than Creation? Could it simply be because a flat earth is universally rejected by thinking people, while Creationism is a little harder to disprove? Aren't the Creationists themselves playing fast and loose with God's own inerrant Word?
The fake images proposal was more of an actual trial balloon, and I have already made one new fake UFO image since last night. Can't wait until we can embed the disclaimer and get this kid of stuff to the woo-woos. I hope Jason Barker will contribute his graphic skills to that project, too.
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/29/2006 15:32:46 |
|
|
|
ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 02:16:33 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
This image is a phony... What I don't have is a way of embedding text in the final images...Comments, critiques?
RE proposal 2 it's always been both possible (and simple) to imbed messages in graphics- it's just that in the last "so many" years digital photography has become common and cheap enough that anyone would find reason to bother. If you want a method or further explanation, drop me a message or email and I'll type something up. |
Ron White |
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 13:01:53 [Permalink]
|
ronnywhite shot back: quote:
RE proposal 2 it's always been both possible (and simple) to imbed messages in graphics- it's just that in the last "so many" years digital photography has become common and cheap enough that anyone would find reason to bother. If you want a method or further explanation, drop me a message or email and I'll type something up.
Thank you, I would appreciate that, Ron. I'm hoping to learn all I can about the subject of embedding text in images using steganography. Ideally, some sort of a key could be given to laymen for each image, to unlock the disclaimer text locked within it. The individual key, of couse, would only be released after woo-woo sites have published that image. I will send you my direct email address via this site's messaging system. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/30/2006 13:29:45 |
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 15:03:10 [Permalink]
|
I have downloaded the freeware application, StegaNote, which was linked to via the Wikipedia article on steganography. (DON'T TRY IT YOURSELF UNTIL YOU'VE READ MY LAST PARAGRAPH!) I first scanned StegaNote for virii, and found none. I installed it, ran it, and embedded text into a fake UFO image I'd created. StegaNote only allowed me to save the image in the bmp (bitmapped) format, using my own made-up key. It also worked to display the text after loading in that bmp file and entering my key.
The bmp format is unsuitable for our use, being too large, and would also doubtless be converted into the much more compact jpeg format, probably destroying the text data in the process. But it worked as a "demonstration of concept." However . . .
Alarming note: After installing StegaNote, I have been unable to again access the Wikipedia "steganography" article! I just get a blank "(Untitled)" page, with no URL at all in the address field. Otherwise, both Wikipedia and my (default) Firefox browser seem to be working normally. I can still access the article using Internet Explorer. At this point, I am running a complete virus scan. I don't know if the problem is with me, or is caused by some malignant hidden software that might have been intalled by StegaNote. Please stand by... |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/30/2006 16:33:22 |
|
|
|
trogdor
Skeptic Friend
198 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 16:41:37 [Permalink]
|
re Lamarckianism in the classroom:
I went to a Montessori school, a teaching style based off of student directed learning and lots of visual and kinesthetic tools. in the elementary 1 classroom there is a large focus on evolution and the history of life on earth. because the children are so young (1-3 graders) many Lamarckian concepts are shown. (IE "then life decided to move out of the water and conquer the land.") Because my dad worked in a natural history museum I realized that some of the lessons were rife with scientific inaccuracies pretty quick. I don't think that I ever confronted my teacher about this but most of the other students seemed to realize that some of the concepts were wrong. I talked to a Montessori teacher about this a few weeks ago and she explained that they teach these even though they are known to be false because the students will find out that what they learned was wrong and discover that science is fallible and to be skeptical! a crappy excuse in my opinion. |
all eyes were on Ford Prefect. some of them were on stalks.
-Douglas Adams |
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 16:50:45 [Permalink]
|
| Trogdor, I'm shocked to learn that a Montessori school would actually teach a thoroughly discredited theory like Lamarckism, and I find their excuse for doing so ridiculous. Is this typical for Montessori schools, or just a local aberration? |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
|
|
|
Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 18:47:45 [Permalink]
|
ricky spat out: quote:
As long as they explain why it's wrong in the end, I see no problem. Learning the history of science is a key ingredient to understanding the process of science.
But, if I understood trogdor's post, they don't correct the Lamarckism they teach the students, not because they want to promote Lamarckism, but so the students may discover the truth on their own. A pretty hit-and-miss way to teach science, IMO. I wonder, what other nonsense do the Montessorians routinely teach, with that same justification? Even though I can imagine that some students might benefit from this "technique," there must be many others who simply remain miseducated. Seems to me that this is a case of the Montessori people letting the ideology of their educational theory get in the way of education.
BTW, I still have the problem I'd described in a previous post, not being able to open Wikipedia's "steganography" entry using Firefox. My virus scan came up negative. I wonder how StegaNote did that to my browser? |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 19:34:14 [Permalink]
|
| I removed "StegaNote" from my computer, and now I can again access the Wikipedia "steganography" article. This was a Very Strange Thing. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
