|
|
|
H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 03/07/2006 : 11:31:57
|
Human quadrupeds discovered in Turkey
quote:
LONDON (AFP) - The discovery of a Turkish family that walks on all fours could aid research into the evolution of humans.
Researchers believe the five brothers and sisters, who can walk naturally only on all fours, may provide new information on how humans evolved from four-legged hominids to walk upright.
Nicholas Humphrey, evolutionary psychologist at the London School of Economics, told The Times the discovery opened "an extraordinary window on our past".
"I do not think they were designed to be quadrupeds by their genes, but their unique genetic make-up allowed them to be," he said.
Hmm. I'm not sure about this one, although I suppose it's possible. Thoughts?
|
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 12:08:03 [Permalink]
|
One picture: 
No video. (but I guess there will be something airing on BBC on March 17th)
No journal reference for a study.
No reference to the specifics of their "unique genetic makeup".
This: quote:
Uner Tan, a professor of physiology at Cukurova University in Adana, Turkey, who first brought the family to the attention of scientists, argues that the gene mutations have made them regress to a “missing link” primate state, also explaining their severe problems with language. A team of German geneticists believes that the family holds the key to a breakthrough gene for bipedality
And this:
quote:
Nicholas Humphrey, evolutionary psychologist at the London School of Economics
Leave some serious unanswered questions.
From the picture it just looks like you have some mentally retarded people who are walking with their hands on the ground....
They don't appear, structurally (in the photo), different than a normal human.
If being able to walk on your hands and feet at the same time is some genetic anomoly.... they didn't need to go into rural Turkey to find a study subject: A brief stop in th UK is all they needed!
I dunno... the article just doesn't give enough info.
|
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
 |
|
|
furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 12:39:13 [Permalink]
|
I'm sorry but that picture is funnier than crap. Why are they wearing shoes but no gloves?
Give me a freaking break.
HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
|
|
|
furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 12:42:19 [Permalink]
|
OK, I read the article (should have to begin with) these are a group of mentally handicapped people and I should not have laughed at them. I assumed it was a joke and not an article taking advantage of the mentally handicapped.
|
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
|
|
|
pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 12:54:03 [Permalink]
|
| I don't see from the picture how these people could be considered anything other than bipeds walking on their hands. Notice that their pelvic/buttocks are extremely high in the air, as one would expect from a biped bending over. There just doesn't seem to be any modification to the skeletal structure to suggest a true quadraped. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
|
|
|
|
Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 13:39:40 [Permalink]
|
Ricky said:
quote:
But then again, I don't think any normal human can walk like that for more than 10 minutes. So it should be pretty easy to test.
I dunno... ever seen one of the Circ de Sole?
People can contort themselves seriously out of "normal" shape, and they can do it for sustained periods of time with practice.
If the people in the article have been doing this since childhood, they can probably sustain it for a good while.
|
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 13:46:10 [Permalink]
|
I'm calling bullshit on it. Until I see some reliable evidence, such as the paper of a qualified researcher spending some time with them, I even doubt the mentally retarded part. They look a bit well-dressed for retarded, Turkish peasantry, I think.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
|
H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 17:44:43 [Permalink]
|
Well, here's my two cents. I agree that this isn't an example of genetic "devolution" or anything of that sort, but I do think that it might offer certain clues about how/when man first developed the tendency to walk upright. As far as I know, the mechanism which spurs toddlers toward a natural inclination for bipedalism is still a mystery. It's just something they do on their own, much like learning to talk.
So while the members of this family are not physically designed for quadrupedalism, they do obviously lack the psychological trigger which leads most people to stop crawling on all fours and to begin walking upright. I suspect that would be the focus of any study into this family, a suspicion somewhat confirmed by the fact that Nicholas Humphrey, the man interviewed for this article, is an evolutionary psychologist.
Still, the lack of a reference to any specific journal study is disconcerting. I guess we'll have to wait for the BBC airing to judge the seriousness with which this news item is handled. It could be just another case of journalistic sensationalism, or even an outright hoax.
|
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 03/07/2006 18:06:31 |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 18:25:23 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Well, here's my two cents. I agree that this isn't an example of genetic "devolution" or anything of that sort, but I do think that it might offer certain clues about how/when man first developed the tendency to walk upright. As far as I know, the mechanism which spurs toddlers toward a natural inclination for bipedalism is still a mystery. It's just something they do on their own, much like learning to talk.
So while the members of this family are not physically designed for quadrupedalism, they do obviously lack the psychological trigger which leads most people to stop crawling on all fours and to begin walking upright. I suspect that would be the focus of any study into this family, a suspicion somewhat confirmed by the fact that Nicholas Humphrey, the man interviewed for this article, is an evolutionary psychologist.
Still, the lack of a reference to any specific journal study is disconcerting. I guess we'll have to wait for the BBC airing to judge the seriousness with which this news item is handled. It could be just another case of journalistic sensationalism, or even an outright hoax.
Only one thing, Double H, that is an extremely uncomfortable and clumsy position to spend any time in. Virtually all young children only assume it when they are on their way to an upright posture. Otherwise, they scuttle about on their hands and knees. This includes most Down's victims.
I just ain't buyin' it; not without a lot more information.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 18:32:01 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Only one thing, Double H, that is an extremely uncomfortable and clumsy position to spend any time in. Virtually all young children only assume it when they are on their way to an upright posture. Otherwise, they scuttle about on their hands and knees. This includes most Down's victims.
I just ain't buyin' it; not without a lot more information.
You make an excellent point. I don't know what to think.
|
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
|
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 18:52:47 [Permalink]
|
I'd like to see what conclusions the BBC show reaches.
|
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
|
|
|
Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 20:56:51 [Permalink]
|
Top Ten list of changes walking on all fours might bring...
10. The shoe industry would have a wet dream.
9. Gorilla ballroom dancing classes abound.
8. Nike sweat shops would have to go into double over-drive.
7. Big boon on archeological/paleontology searches.
6. Bi-wheel-drive bicycles stock goes through the roof.
5. Would mean a total overhaul of rules for hopscotch.
3. Soccer referees suffer mass confusion with new quad team.
2. All those lost contacts now found.
1. Goodbye Turkey; Hello Broadway.
|
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
|
|
|
Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2006 : 01:33:09 [Permalink]
|
| I smell fraud - like that stone age tribe in the Phililpines. I'd like to know if the TV production company had to pay for access to these people. |
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
|
|
|
H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2006 : 02:23:38 [Permalink]
|
You know, I was thinking about this story some more... does anyone find this statement problematic?
quote:
Nicholas Humphrey, evolutionary psychologist at the London School of Economics, told The Times the discovery opened "an extraordinary window on our past".
"I do not think they were designed to be quadrupeds by their genes, but their unique genetic make-up allowed them to be," he said.
So it's not their genes, it's their genetics? WTF? And what exactly does he mean by saying that their genetic make-up "allowed them to be" quadrupeds? Shit, my genetic make-up "allows" me to walk like that if I choose.
And I also have a problem with the Turkish professor calling this family a "missing link." Aside from the fact that no self-respecting biologist uses the term anymore, I find it hard to believe that a scientist would suspect this is a case of evolutionary regression, if such a thing is even possible outside the pages of science fiction.
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I feel this story stinks big time. Something's not right. I wonder how it will pan out. You think the BBC is getting taken for a ride? Has anyone heard any other skeptics banging their drums about this one?
|
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 03/08/2006 02:25:05 |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2006 : 03:55:11 [Permalink]
|
Another tell-tale is this: quote:
Instead, they use their palms like heels with their fingers sticking up from the ground.
Monkeys will walk thus, but not apes. Monkey's limbs are more in proportion, like a quadruped's; with apes the arms are longer than the legs and the animal is much heavier, so they walk on their knuckles, bearing their weight on a straight wrist. We are out of proportion the opposite way: legs a bit longer than arms, so as described, these people are "walking" on not only a bent wrist, but a wrist bent in an exaggerated manner the wrong way -- ouch!!.
What exactly is an evolutionary psychologist, and how far can you trust the research, if such it be, of one working at a a school of economics?
I am reminded that some cunning Turks have a thriving if local industry of selling Ark artifacts and stories to the gullible, in the vicinity of Mt. Ararat. They have skint a'many a devout Christian.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
 |
|
Topic Locked
