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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/20/2006 : 11:19:40 [Permalink]
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How to spot a baby conservative.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 12:20:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
How to spot a baby conservative.
Here is your big problem, the study was on kids from where? Answer: Berkley.
The study was done by a profersor who teaches where? Answer: The UC at Berkley.
What would you expect the conclusions to be? Answer: The ones we just read about.
quote:
"There's no reason to think political bias skewed the ratings"
(bill) Of course not.
quote:
"Block admits in his paper that liberal Berkeley is not representative of the whole country"
(bill) Really? Because that is what I said to.
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"He reasons"
(bill) In other words this is his specultive opinion.
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"It also runs contrary to the American stereotype of wimpy liberals and strong conservatives."
(bill) Block's speculative conclusion that is. A professor from Berkley, how shocking...
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 13:14:55 [Permalink]
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| Well, Bill, if you read the whole article you'd see that they addressed the geographic issue as well as the issue of whether the interpretation should be flattering to liberals or conservatives. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 13:15:29 [Permalink]
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Me, I don't know; but the point of the article has just been made.... 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 06:19:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Well, Bill, if you read the whole article you'd see that they addressed the geographic issue as well as the issue of whether the interpretation should be flattering to liberals or conservatives.
quote:
Well, Bill, if you read the whole article you'd see that they addressed the geographic issue as well as the issue of whether the interpretation should be flattering to liberals or conservatives.
(bill) Oh I don't know marf, I seem to remember highlighting the fact that we both agreed, Block and I, on the geo thing.
quote:
quote:
"Block admits in his paper that liberal Berkeley is not representative of the whole country"
(bill) Really? Because that is what I said to.
I just added a few of my own reasons that it should not flatter liberals, that is all. I happen to agree with Jeff Greenberg from the U of A when he says:
`I found (the Jack Block study) to be biased, shoddy work, poor science at best' Jeff Greenberg University of Arizona
What a colossal waste of time and money. This is probably Block's life work, which the U of C at Berkley probably paid him nicely for, or someone did. And for what? The admitted speculative conclusion of a Berkley professor on a study comparing liberal/conservative traits and characteristics based on Berkley residences and their children. I mean come on, what is the point?
The adverse comparison to this would be to pay Rush L. to give us his conclusion on who is a wimp and who is not, amongst libs and cons. What is the point? We all know what his conclusion will be.
Me, I am more interested in hearing your thoughts on the two sided coin the libs seem to be offering up these days. I agree with you on the notion that the typical liberal suburban family has less kids, uses more birth control, and has more abortions then do their fellow conservative countrymen. But on the flip side of the liberal coin you also have the welfare generation that has numerous children, most out of wedlock, and many times at a very young age, and they seem to have no clue that birth control even exists in the 21st century, and this group of people will vote lib dem, by default, come election day. The lib dems have come to rely on this vote every election cycle. So you, in essence, have two diametrically opposed segments of society propping up the liberal democratic candidates, at the same time. A very strange set of circumstances indeed. The welfare generation is the one producing more liberal voters and restocking the gene pool with the liberal mind. Much more then then the liberal suburban family with their 1.2 kids.
I am also interested in your thoughts on abortion being a certified liberal killer, with a 3:1 kill ratio of libs over future conservative voters. I, for one, see the blinding irony of the fact that, with 47 million aborted lives since R v W, you can calculate that the number of future liberal voters, lost to the slaughter, could very much well have been the few million votes that Al Gore needed to take GWB in 2000. If no GWB in 2000 then obviously no GWB in 04 as well. Wow, the irony to all of this is so monumental it is almost mind boggling.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 03/21/2006 06:51:58 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 06:21:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Me, I don't know; but the point of the article has just been made....
[quote]Me, I don't know; but the point of the article has just been made....
(bill) I agree, here it is:
`I found (the Jack Block study) to be biased, shoddy work, poor science at best' Jeff Greenberg University of Arizona |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 06:35:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Bill wrote: quote:
(bill) (bill) From a naturalist's perspective all conversations are ultimately rendered meaningless. All actions are rendered meaningless. All the choices you have ever made in your life are rendered meaningless. And yes even your life itself is ultimately rendered meaningless in the naturalist universe.
This doesn't make sense. I am giving my life meaning right now. Ergo, my life has meaning. You keep saying “ultimately” meaningless. “Ultimately” would include everything, so since people are giving our lives meaning right now, our lives are ultimately meaningful.
quote:
(bill) Temporary meaning that is.
Temporary is all the meaning we need seeing as we're not around to be aware of its absence before or after our lives. quote:
What good is a record of time if no one is even around to observe the record?
If there was someone around to observe the record, that would be meaningless to us since we'd be dead. The only meaning in our lives that is of any significance to people, is the meaning that we give our lives while we are alive. That it is temporary does not degrade its worth at all.
quote:
That it is temporary does not degrade its worth at all.
Sure it does. If we do enter eternity at the point of death then chocies we make here can have an eternal effect, while the choices we make down here are rendered meaningless, if all just ends in oblivian, for everyone. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 09:44:23 [Permalink]
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Bill wrote: quote:
I am also interested in your thoughts on abortion being a certified liberal killer, with a 3:1 kill ratio of libs over future conservative voters.
I already responded to that. Go back and find it. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 10:02:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Bill wrote: quote:
I am also interested in your thoughts on abortion being a certified liberal killer, with a 3:1 kill ratio of libs over future conservative voters.
I already responded to that. Go back and find it.
quote:
I already responded to that. Go back and find it.
All you did was try to make a case that all of these aborted lives would not have become voters. I agreed, but then added that the 3:1 ratio was on the ones who WOULD have voted.
Nothing to say on the two sided liberal coin either?
Your being unusually quite here marf.... |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 11:38:10 [Permalink]
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Bill wrote: quote:
All you did was try to make a case that all of these aborted lives would not have become voters. I agreed, but then added that the 3:1 ratio was on the ones who WOULD have voted.
Nothing to say on the two sided liberal coin either?
Your being unusually quite here marf....
I'm not being "unusually quiet". You are a rather pointless person to debate with. I tried for a long while, but when you started just repeating yourself and making nonsensical statements, it gets frustrating.
On the 3:1 ratio - I fail to see how that conclusion was made using good science. But more importantly, are you saying that liberals should oppose legal abortion so we can increase our numbers? If so, you are asking us to compromise our morals for the sake of political gain.
On the two sided liberal coin: quote:
So you, in essence, have two diametrically opposed segments of society propping up the liberal democratic candidates, at the same time.
How are they diametrically opposed? What are the suburban liberals getting out of it? You can't just say political power because they could just as easily join the Republican party. Why are they staying on the side of the poor? Also, tons of poor rural people (many of whom live in highly dysfunctional families) vote Republican. Is that diametrically opposed to wealthy Republicans? I don't see your point at all.
Also, this way of framing the political landscape is horribly simplified. I live in a poor black neighborhood, but I come from a middle class liberal family. Some of my aunts and uncles are working class liberals, who fit into neither of your narrow categories of liberals. My mother-in-law is from and lives in a small rural town and is a liberal, as are many of her friends. It isn't all as neat and clean-cut as you seem to suggest. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 11:47:29 [Permalink]
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Bill wrote: quote:
quote: (marfknox)That it (the meaning people give their own lives) is temporary does not degrade its worth at all.
(bill)Sure it does. If we do enter eternity at the point of death then chocies we make here can have an eternal effect, while the choices we make down here are rendered meaningless, if all just ends in oblivian, for everyone.
I do not agree with you, Bill. If a conscious being gives meaning to something, even if that meaning is temporary, it had meaning. In the grand scheme of things it had meaning. Period. My grandmother got married and her first husband died very young. Her second marriage lasted nearly 40 years (before he died too). Did the first marriage get rendered "meaningless" because it didn't last a lifetime?
If what we do in this life has consequences in another life, that isn't more meaningful than the meaning we've given our lives here and now. It is an entirely different meaning that is being given by some outside force or by our future selves, or both. Just like my grandmother's two marriages were both meaningful but in different ways. But speculating on such future meaning and states is about as useful as speculating on the existence of fairies or Santa Claus. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 03/21/2006 11:48:59 |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 19:09:29 [Permalink]
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Bill just can't seem to grasp the concept of living without an imaginary friend. Of living based on what you know, instead of what you wish to be true. Of the sheer absurdity of claiming knowledge about eternity.  |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2006 : 03:47:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Me, I don't know; but the point of the article has just been made....
quote:
(bill) I agree, here it is:
`I found (the Jack Block study) to be biased, shoddy work, poor science at best' Jeff Greenberg University of Arizona
I don't care about all that. I was casting my bait upon the waters, as it were. 
Bro, you took that bait; hook, line, sinker, rod, reel, arm, and my latest copy of Angling Times.
You need to pay attention around here, Bill. I'll do it again if I see the chance.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 03/22/2006 05:59:47 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9696 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2006 : 07:54:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Bro, you took that bait; hook, line, sinker, rod, reel, arm, and my latest copy of Angling Times.
You need to pay attention around here, Bill. I'll do it again if I see the chance.
Filthy, when severely suffering from Morton's Demon, "Paying attention" is a highly relative concept.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2006 : 08:29:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Bro, you took that bait; hook, line, sinker, rod, reel, arm, and my latest copy of Angling Times.
You need to pay attention around here, Bill. I'll do it again if I see the chance.
Filthy, when severely suffering from Morton's Demon, "Paying attention" is a highly relative concept.
I've had a couple of brief conversations with Glenn. He's an interesting guy and highly knowledgeable. And thus his demon is that of a dedicated YEC suddenly smelling the coffee.
I watched him tear Sarfati a new one at TWeb. Beautiful! 
Bill's problem is that everything has to be black or white. He has difficulty seeing and dealing with nuance. Perhaps, if he stays with us long enough, he'll lighten up a little, as have others. Already his writing is much improved and he's opening links.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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