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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
 Posted - 04/23/2006 : 17:31:05
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I came across this bizarre poster in the JREF forums that claimed to be a doctor but had the most incredibly condescending attitude toward nurses I have ever heard. At first I wasn't sure if he was even for real and I'm still not 100% sure he is. His reasoning skills are as defective as his attitude. I had enough to say on the thread subject as it wandered about to put in my 4 cents worth. And on my last post I found myself tying what I had to say about a patient manifesto this doc in question had posted to his bigoted attitude about nurses. It was very satisfying to the point I want to share. If anyone's interested anyway.
The thread
I am skeptigirl in that forum and the guy who opened the thread, skepticdoc, is the egotistical doc. The post I was most pleased with is on page three, 2/3 of the page down. It's a long one, passed a few shorter ones of mine. It's listed as #89 on my screen but I understand the number can vary with each viewer.
Anyway you really have to read this guy's posts to see how bad his attitude is so it's worth skimming the whole thread. It's a jaw dropper.
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woolytoad
Skeptic Friend
313 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2006 : 19:09:51 [Permalink]
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| Boy, he's such a dick. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2006 : 19:27:09 [Permalink]
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| I just read the whole thing. You go, skeptigirl! My mother-in-law has been a nurse for over 30 years, and she has lamented often about how nurses are underappreciated. She also exhibits a huge amount of compassion and knowledge that she's gained through experience, as well as her degrees. One of my sister-in-laws is also a nurse and tired of being underpaid, so she's getting her degree to be a nurse practitioner now. It amazes me that so many people don't offer nurses the respect they deserve. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2006 : 19:56:26 [Permalink]
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Weirdly interesting thread, beskeptigal. The "doc" may or may not be what he claims. I certainly don't have any medical expertise, so I can't assess his postings from that perspective. But one thing is clear. He's not forthcoming with his motives. Early on he claimed, "I'm just curious to find out how many skeptical physicians or healthcare workers have taken the step to participate in skeptical forums." But rather than engage in a productive dialog with the few health care professionals who have responded, he continues to whine that he isn't able to find any in the skeptic community.
He reminds me of the nutcase here in the Astronomy forum who claims the Sun has a solid surface. He doesn't want to prove anything. He just wants to talk about it. If he laid out any quantitative data as evidence, his whole silly fantasy would come crashing down. So he stays just far enough outside the edge of the ring so he never has to make any real commitments. If he made any commitments he would destroy his own case.
In the same way skepticdoc won't actually make his point. He seems intent on just being an asshole. If he doesn't make his point clearly, if he is intentionally ambiguous, he can sidestep or conveniently misinterpret responses which don't support his need to feel superior. He's a condescending jerk. You've done an admirable job of staying patient and focused, beskeptigal, and you've made a positive contribution to the thread. Too bad the same can't be said of the original poster. 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2006 : 20:00:25 [Permalink]
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If I'd written those posts, beskeptigal, I'd be smug, too. (Especially because I don't have your expertise on the subject  )
Is there a term for "justifiably smug?" 'Cause "proud" just doesn't seem to cut it. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2006 : 23:13:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
...One of my sister-in-laws is also a nurse and tired of being underpaid, so she's getting her degree to be a nurse practitioner now. It amazes me that so many people don't offer nurses the respect they deserve.
That won't help at first. I earned a lot more as an agency ICU nurse than I did as a nurse practitioner. Now that I have my own practice, though, I earn more than an agency nurse.
As a nurse practitioner and as an ICU nurse, the respect was there from almost everyone. Doctors know very well how much ICU nurses contribute to patient care. That's one reason I find it hard to believe skepticdoc is for real. Some doctors will act aloof, eat lunch with other doctors not mixing with nurses in conversations necessarily, but I really can't recall any that didn't respect the ICU nurses' abilities.
But then that was here. In other states, nurse practitioners had a much harder time getting recognition. And doctors fought them all the way including having a few arrested for practicing medicine without a license. That has all changed now though. We are licensed in the majority of states though not with complete autonomy everywhere.
There's a statue in a Seattle suburb, Fremont, called "Waiting for the Interurban". It's great with a bunch of people and a dog with a human face waiting at a bus stop. Real people dress up the statue people all the time for various occasions from holidays to political protests. One day someone put nurses uniforms on the statues and a big sign that read, "Waiting for Recognition". Unfortunately there's no Web copy posted and I don't have a copy. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 04/23/2006 23:54:24 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2006 : 13:27:00 [Permalink]
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You done good, B., real good. I noted one comment posted by Deetee: quote:
I am an Infectious Diseases specialist working in the NHS in the UK. I may not know how medical care is organised in the US, but I do know when a "doc" is being patronising about a nursing colleague.
This jackass "Skepticdoc" thinks nurses are merely the "assembly line workers of the medical factory? I could easily chime in with human sympathy for the nursing profession being so maligned. But I'll take another tack, based on my fairly recent hospitalization for a stroke.
From the viewpoint of a patient, a doctor who ignores or belittles the observations or suggestions of a nurse is ignoring or belittling the patient. Only the nurse has significant daily contact with patients.
If the doctor considers the nurse to be merely an "assembly line worker" and discourages him from providing feedback, the patient's complaints, groans, general level of energy, etc., will go unreported. The doctor will remain largely ignorant of his patient's progress, and the patient will suffer as a result.
So, as a former and future patient, I applaud you, B. for fighting this jackass for me.
My main problem with nurses is that there are not enough of them, and that the ones who do exist are too overloaded with work to give patients the attention that they need.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2006 : 01:55:28 [Permalink]
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Please enjoy my latest installment. I am having so much fun with this.  |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 04/25/2006 01:57:09 |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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sts60
Skeptic Friend
141 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2006 : 13:38:51 [Permalink]
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After reading through that thread, I'm really not even sure what the heck "Skepticdoc" was even getting at; his pomposity was right up there with the turbidity of his thinking.
But nice work anyway, beskeptigal! I generally agree with you said in your posts.
FWIW, I have a reasonably broad though not deep perspective, as a volunteer FF/EMT-B* with a family history of USPHS dad (surgeon) and mom(RN) plus two sisters who are nurses.
*We're the ones the nurses think are dumb apes. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2006 : 03:33:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
In his last post, he seems to think that "Nurses are just as important as doctors" means "Nurses do exactly the same thing as doctors". Not quite sure why though...
I think he's beginning to feel stupid for his conceit. But he still doesn't understand nursing is a separate profession, not an extension of physician care and he can't quite admit there is no hierarchy as he imagines it. I've started a reply since I finally got a rise out of him. But I have so much to say I had to answer in sections. More will have to follow later. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 04:16:25 [Permalink]
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| More installments. Unfortunately he just gives stupid replies. No debate. He really doesn't impress me as a doctor. He's just too ignorant. I think he is a Dr wannabe who has a crappy job at a crappy hospital. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 04:38:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
... physician care ...
Isn't that where a Doctor stops a busy RN on an ICU or CCU asks questions for 5 minutes so he can bill for a consultation. My wife is a busy RN on a CCU and will direct this kind of Doctor to the patients chart.
Excuse the generalization, but when I read skepticdoc I was reminded of this. There are really only a handful of these repeat offenders at her hospital. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 12:33:09 [Permalink]
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Last edited by skeptigirl : Today at 12:23 PM. A perfect ending to the thread:quote:
Thanks for letting me know I wasn't only posting to skepticdoc. That's the real reason I've taken the time here. Nurses do need more public info campaigning. S'doc's classic stereotype believing answers provided avenues to explain what nursing is really all about.
As to s'doc being a doc, I think we do have more than sufficient evidence here that he isn't one. I suspect a doctor wannabe rather than an outright purposeful troll. No doubt there are many people on the Net who love to pretend. What better place than this one to be something you are not. But even here once you start revealing yourself, a facade is not always as easy to keep up as one might think.
So unless you have something of substance to say, skepticdoc, I think I've more than made the case doctors can just as easily take nursing orders from nurses as nurses can take medical orders from doctors.
I'm pretty sure from here on there'll just be more nonsense from skepticdoc, and I plan only directed sarcasm in return. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 04/27/2006 12:36:02 |
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