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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 04/29/2006 : 18:05:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
[If I misread what you were saying here, please correct me. Don't just tell me that “[I'm] reading something that isn't there.”
I would correct you by directing you to read what I wrote, both in the other thread, and this one. Also, I'm not interested in having a definition war for no apparent reason.
Generally, I use the word "supersition," rather than religion. Again, the Rabbi said it himself. He doesn't think very much of life, so he has to create these fantasies in order to give his life worth. That is almost the definition of superstition. Again, maybe you disagree, but superstition is an irrational belief arising from ignorance or fear. My guess is that this would only apply to those that are not ignorant, for instance children would not really have much ability to think about their superstition and therefore would not have their own superstition but their version of someone else's.
Now, is that true of everyone that believes in things which do not have reasonable support? I don't know, but I don't think so. I would say that people who build their lives around superstition have built it out of similar fears of reality. Like the Rabbi says he has.
But, religion or supernaturalism or superstition is really irrelevant. The idea is finding the beliefs that create the problems in our lives. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 04/29/2006 18:17:22 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2006 : 18:43:47 [Permalink]
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John wrote: quote:
It does make me think though, how do we deal with religions whose doctrine places their beliefs above those of society in general? "You can practice the bits of your religion that society sees as appropriate." tends to not go down real well, and then you have all the "look, their picking on us poor religious folk again!" whining.
No one is asking the religious to compromise in their own personal life choices. Look at Orthodox Jews; do we see a lot of them running around trying to force their religiously-based morality and customs on everyone? Earlier in this post I mentioned the friend who said he personally found abortion to be immoral, but because he knew that religious belief was his sole basis for that moral stance, he would not force it on others through law. That doesn't take away from him being able to practice his own morality for himself. It is simply a matter of religious believers recognizing that religious beliefs are personal, not objective, and thus, ideas that spring purely from belief shouldn't be considered hard fact, and shouldn't be crammed down the throats of nonbelievers. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 04/29/2006 18:44:54 |
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend
USA
346 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2006 : 20:36:07 [Permalink]
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Wow. Not only did my thread go to 6 pages and marfkonx call my critique "awesome",(thanks by the way), I also made it to the Forum Highlights. You guys are just too good to me.  |
"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2006 : 20:47:59 [Permalink]
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leoofno wrote: quote:
You guys are just too good to me.
Naw, you deserve it. I hope you and your thoughtful analysis stick around SFN for a long time. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 05/01/2006 20:48:16 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2006 : 03:52:32 [Permalink]
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| Yes, it was very well written and thought out. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2006 : 04:19:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
quote:
Some religious leaders obviously betray the teachings of the faith they claim to represent, but their sacred scriptures remain a critique of them and also of every thing we do to betray the better angels of our nature.
See, he seems moderate by admitting that some religious people have used scripture for bad purposes or misinterpreted scripture. But then he makes a positive statement that reveals he has his own interpretation of scripture that he apparently thinks is correct. ... One can only imagine the mental jumping jacks he must do to interpret all the nastiest parts of the Old Testament as “a critique of every thing we do to betray the better angels of our nature.”
That's interesting. I have my own interpretation of scripture that I think is correct. But of course my interpretation does not force me to do mental jumping jacks to avoid conflicts with its contents.
Hopefully my eyes are wide open and will remain that way, but I'm not the best one to judge myself. I have a wife to do that. 25 and counting... |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2006 : 05:16:22 [Permalink]
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moakley wrote: quote:
That's interesting. I have my own interpretation of scripture that I think is correct.
I really should have qualified by statement with that he acts like he can know his interpretation of the scripture is correct. I mean, every Christian and Jew had some interpretation of the scripture that they think is correct - what really makes a fundamentalist is when you think you can know you are right and everyone else is wrong. That is what I was getting out of that quote from the Rabbi. He just took a very condesending and authoritative tone that made it seem like he felt he was privvy to special universal, spiritual truths that so many other people, for whatever reason, aren't privvy to. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2006 : 07:21:29 [Permalink]
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My Tombstone: He discovered the meaning of life and didnt tell anybody.
Im just sick of atheists being lumped all together. Clearly there are atheists who behave like the rabbi thinks and unfortunatly they are ourperceived spokespersons. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2006 : 08:06:15 [Permalink]
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| I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore! |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2006 : 05:01:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
If I had a nickel for every time I heard a christian state, "My faith in God/Jesus makes my life meaningful." I'd have $42.85. So is that self worthlessness? I don't think so, but it does convey the idea that without this faith their life just might be worthless/meaningless.
Not worth enough, not necessarily worthless. Their life (their worth) is not worth very much without the meaning added by creating this fantasy. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2006 : 05:03:04 [Permalink]
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It's atheists, not athiests. Somebody, please!
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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