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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 05/30/2006 : 01:58:22 [Permalink]
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How 'bout that? I've hijacked a thread without even trying. Damn, but I'm good! 
I love hot, but I don't have anything to prove. This year, we'll grow some tabascos, habeneros, and lots of bananna peppers. These last are pretty mild and are great sliced and sauteed with onions to garnish any sort of meat. The tabascos will go to make sauce and salsa, and the habeneros will be pickled and used piecemeal to liven up soups, beans, and stews. Might also make salsa with some of them, depending on how many we get. A little habenero goes a looong way!
I remember, years ago, watching a hot pepper eating contest on the toob; I think it took place in LA or TX, or some other such backward land. It was an ugly sight, truly, but yet, something impossible to stop watching -- rather like a train wreck without the noise. Anyhow, the contest opened with a large number of potential Bedlamites seated at a long table having a light lunch before getting down to business; warming up, as it were. They were drinking sauce straight from the bottle and eating salsa with a spoon, and judging from the sweat on their faces, it was a pretty decent salsa.
As the gladiators, one by one, dropped by the wayside, their last, words, delivered in a sort of wind-sucking gasp, were invariably: "Gimmie beer! NOW!!"
Finally, the whole ghastly thing came down to one man sitting alone on a stool. He was wearing only bathing trunks and was no longer merely perspiring, no. He was deluging. Moisture was all but spurting from every pore on his tortured body in such quanity that he could have been one of Noah's Fountains of the Earth, and he was in some very real pain.
But he was the winner, oh my yes. And do you want to know what his prize, or at least the first of his prizes was? Oh? You say you already know... Well, here it is, anyway:
The chump champ is sitting on that stool doubtless dreaming of his own "Gimmie beer NOW!!" when this guy sashays in wearing a Satan suit and a big, nasty smirk. In his white-gloved hand, he carries a small, very classy and highly polished, silver platter. Upon that platter resides a plump, freshly picked, quite lovely habenero. The winner was a very tough and stoic individual, and you never really saw the abject horror with which he greeted his winnings, but you knew it was there..... 
I do not recall if our champion ate that little cannonball or not. I do remember feeling a great pity because the poor bastard had much of it to go through again. A good, robust chili pepper, you see, is hot twice. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2006 : 09:57:42 [Permalink]
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I just find it somewhat humorous that pepper plants originally evolved their hotness so that they wouldn't be eaten by animals. Leave it to humans to find their defense mechanism an appetizing quality.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2006 : 11:05:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Every time a cell division occurs, we have the potential of a mutation in the copying process. I don't recall the number believed to be copying-error-rate. Last time I think I heard something about one-in-a-billion basepairs.
That means that a proto-hen lays a proto egg, in which a proto-zygote starts to divide.
Early in that division the mutation occurs that makes a fourth of (or an eighth, or a sixteenth) of the cells in the proto-chicken to carry the True Chicken DNA.
At one point or another, the proto-chickens "sex-cell" (that carries the mutation) enters meiosis to become the new True Egg.
Hence the EGG is the first true chicken-egg.
Thus speaketh Dr. Mabuse.
Please tell me if this sounds plausible...
Like all the mutations when they tried to mutate the fruit fly's in millions of generations.
False. Fruit-flies has bever been breeded for millions of generations in order to test the theory of evolution.
Well, he is getting better. Last time he was claiming billions. I was bored and did the math. The amount of time required to breed billions of generations was longer than the existance of Homosapiens. And doing the math here, gives us a span of 77,000 years to breed two million generations of fruit flies. As this transcends the study of science, the written word, optics, and the invention of metalworking in general, something tells me good ole verlch is exaggerating again. Especially since the timeline also extends past his 6,000 year old Creation bit.
quote:
quote:
It was always still a fruit fly, the mutations were naturally weeded out, and it continued to be a fruit fly, much to Dr. Hyde bemusement.
Who is Dr. Hyde? References please...
Combining of the main personas of Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde from the story of the same name. V fancies himself quite the wit. He may be half right.
quote:
quote:
The fact of the matter is, there is exactly no reason to evolve into an egg.
"Reason" has nothing to do with it, how many times do we have to tell you that? In evolutionary biology, there are benefits. Eggs were beneficial for protecting the developing organism.
V operates under the "common sense" rules as most neo-conservatives. You better watch out before he gets all Illuminati on your ass.
quote:
quote:
Unless by design, it serves no purpose in the evolutionary process you guys exault.
Liar.
Good catch. V appears to be making an attempt at ID again.
quote:
quote:
That fact of the matter is, that eggs have existed since time began,
Not according to the Bible. Don't you read the Bible, Verlch?
Hmmmmm. You have a point. I hope that V can explain how eggs existed around the time of "let there be light" or perhaps he was going with the proximity factor of the literal seven days of Creation as expounded by the YEC folks.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 05/30/2006 11:06:16 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2006 : 11:05:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
I just find it somewhat humorous that pepper plants originally evolved their hotness so that they wouldn't be eaten by animals. Leave it to humans to find their defense mechanism an appetizing quality.
Actually, this behavior is not uncommon in nature. The nudibranchs, for example, adopt the nematocysts of their jellyfish prey for their own defense, rendering them a spicy mouthful indeed..
quote:
Nudibranches' coloration and form is their primary means of defense. Many species engage in camouflage, in which the nudibranch's body form, texture and coloration blends in with its surroundings. Some species are able to adjust like color to their surroundings like a chameleon, while other species have elaborate and vivid coloration which serves as a warning to potential predators that the nudibranch tastes terrible. As an additional protection, most nudibranches secret toxic chemicals, such as sulfuric acid, from small microscopic glands all over their body. There are also species which fire nematocysts (stinging cells) which they have ingested from eating sea anemones and hydroids.
Ah, how far afield can we stray?
Did you know that some aquatic mollusks lay their eggs out of water, and these have a hard, if brittle, shell? The apple snails found in most pet shops are an example. These climb a plant and stick their eggs to a frond above the water, In due course, the eggs hatch and the tiny, fully-formed snail falls into the water, where it will spend it's life. Except for when it lays it's own eggs, of course. And being hermaphroditic, it will certainly lay eggs.
A snappy sauce is good with apple snails, too. Be sure to cook them well -- they are an intermediate host for a variety of parasites.
There. Back on topic, neat & sweet.... 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2006 : 13:16:13 [Permalink]
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Filthy asked the big question: quote:
Ah, how far afield can we stray?
As far as you like. This wasn't intended as a formal or even particularly serious thread. What it's turned into, however, makes for fascinating reading.
I'm not personally a fan of the capsicum plant's fruit, aside from cool bell peppers. I've repeatedly tried to obtain a taste for methyl vanillyl nonenamide, but even though I otherwise love Mexican food, I now just leave out the chilis. Tastes evidently vary considerably. My father loves the hottest chilis he can get.
My reasoning is that if I wanted to break out in a sweat, cry, and feel intense pain all at the same time, I could always attend the showing of a tear-jerker movie, and set the theater on fire. Or maybe go nuts and get myself dowsed by a cop with pepper spray.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2006 : 16:44:44 [Permalink]
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A sweet flavorfull green chilli sauce, just below the threshold that will cause you tears (different for everyone) is a beautiful thing!
Just hot enough to make you sweat a little is how I like it.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2006 : 17:13:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Actually, this behavior is not uncommon in nature. The nudibranchs, for example, adopt the nematocysts of their jellyfish prey for their own defense, rendering them a spicy mouthful indeed..
Hmm. I wonder then, is there any evidence that eating chilis confers any similarly protective benefits to humans? Perhaps the capsaicin provides some level of protection against food-borne or gut-dwelling parasites?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2006 : 23:28:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
I just find it somewhat humorous that pepper plants originally evolved their hotness so that they wouldn't be eaten by animals. Leave it to humans to find their defense mechanism an appetizing quality.
Which of course is has enhanced their chances of survival. Any mutation that makes a plant appetizing to humans is usually benificial. As may be a mutation which makes a the seeds/fuit of a plant appetizing to an animal that will spread them around in it's feces. Here is an MP3 on a seed spreading insect called a Weta and how it's delcine is threatening the plant species that rely on it.
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"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2006 : 23:50:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ghost_Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
I just find it somewhat humorous that pepper plants originally evolved their hotness so that they wouldn't be eaten by animals. Leave it to humans to find their defense mechanism an appetizing quality.
Which of course is has enhanced their chances of survival. Any mutation that makes a plant appetizing to humans is usually benificial. As may be a mutation which makes a the seeds/fuit of a plant appetizing to an animal that will spread them around in it's feces.
Except with the advent of indoor plumbing, that no longer happens. However, we more than make up for that fact by growing the plants we desire. I'm not sure I buy that argument with chilies--I'm more interested in how we ever acquired an affinity for a spicy fruit to begin with--but I have heard similar arguments for plants which don't offer us any nutritional value, but which confer certain benefits to humans nonetheless. Cotton, tobacco, and marijuana would all be examples. It might have been "evolutionarily advantageous" to please a species capable of dispersing you, all anthropomorphism aside.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 05/30/2006 23:57:54 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2006 : 03:28:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by Ghost_Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
I just find it somewhat humorous that pepper plants originally evolved their hotness so that they wouldn't be eaten by animals. Leave it to humans to find their defense mechanism an appetizing quality.
Which of course is has enhanced their chances of survival. Any mutation that makes a plant appetizing to humans is usually benificial. As may be a mutation which makes a the seeds/fuit of a plant appetizing to an animal that will spread them around in it's feces.
Except with the advent of indoor plumbing, that no longer happens. However, we more than make up for that fact by growing the plants we desire. I'm not sure I buy that argument with chilies--I'm more interested in how we ever acquired an affinity for a spicy fruit to begin with--but I have heard similar arguments for plants which don't offer us any nutritional value, but which confer certain benefits to humans nonetheless. Cotton, tobacco, and marijuana would all be examples. It might have been "evolutionarily advantageous" to please a species capable of dispersing you, all anthropomorphism aside.
This is exactly right. A great many plants make themselves attractive to various species. The hammer orchid comes to mind. The orchid mimics the female of a certain wasp, and when the horny, little male wasp visits this horticultural whore, the plant "hammers" it with pollen, to be given to the next hammer orchid the thoroughly confused insect stops at.
Some seeds must pass through the digestive system of a mammal to germinate. And some seeds, notably a couple of conifers, will only germinate after going through a fire. Go figger.
Weta crickets: Look up the Cook Mountain weta. This guy, an extremophile, lives above the frost line and freezes solid each night. When the sun thaws it out in the morning, it becomes active again.
Ripley, you don't know shit..... 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2006 : 15:50:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Every time a cell division occurs, we have the potential of a mutation in the copying process. I don't recall the number believed to be copying-error-rate. Last time I think I heard something about one-in-a-billion basepairs.
That means that a proto-hen lays a proto egg, in which a proto-zygote starts to divide.
Early in that division the mutation occurs that makes a fourth of (or an eighth, or a sixteenth) of the cells in the proto-chicken to carry the True Chicken DNA.
At one point or another, the proto-chickens "sex-cell" (that carries the mutation) enters meiosis to become the new True Egg.
Hence the EGG is the first true chicken-egg.
Thus speaketh Dr. Mabuse.
Please tell me if this sounds plausible...
Like all the mutations when they tried to mutate the fruit fly's in millions of generations.
False. Fruit-flies has bever been breeded for millions of generations in order to test the theory of evolution.
Well, he is getting better. Last time he was claiming billions. I was bored and did the math. The amount of time required to breed billions of generations was longer than the existance of Homosapiens. And doing the math here, gives us a span of 77,000 years to breed two million generations of fruit flies. As this transcends the study of science, the written word, optics, and the invention of metalworking in general, something tells me good ole verlch is exaggerating again. Especially since the timeline also extends past his 6,000 year old Creation bit.
quote:
quote:
It was always still a fruit fly, the mutations were naturally weeded out, and it continued to be a fruit fly, much to Dr. Hyde bemusement.
Who is Dr. Hyde? References please...
Combining of the main personas of Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde from the story of the same name. V fancies himself quite the wit. He may be half right.
quote:
quote:
The fact of the matter is, there is exactly no reason to evolve into an egg.
"Reason" has nothing to do with it, how many times do we have to tell you that? In evolutionary biology, there are benefits. Eggs were beneficial for protecting the developing organism.
V operates under the "common sense" rules as most neo-conservatives. You better watch out before he gets all Illuminati on your ass.
quote:
quote:
Unless by design, it serves no purpose in the evolutionary process you guys exault.
Liar.
Good catch. V appears to be making an attempt at ID again.
quote:
quote:
That fact of the matter is, that eggs have existed since time began,
Not according to the Bible. Don't you read the Bible, Verlch?
Hmmmmm. You have a point. I hope that V can explain how eggs existed around the time of "let there be light" or perhaps he was going with the proximity factor of the literal seven days of Creation as expounded by the YEC folks.
Let there be the light bulb, oh I forgot that was invented by man. Good ol' Thomas Edison, Creator of the light bulb.
"Can you hear me Thomas" oh yeah Creator of the telephone.
You could bred millions of generations by having more than one line going. Trying to alter the fruit fly's and change their environment. Using heat, and cold, and genetic mutations. The fact was, that once a fruit fly, always a fruit fly.
You, men of renown, say that we changed based on our environment, to "adapt" to changes, to make us better, as we evolve towards the spirit world, were we are void of this material world taht imprisons us, from Liberty and true Freedom. Not my words by the way!!!
Benefits? You mean the ones that must have been there, because evolution "must be" true.
It would have "Benefited" the fruit fly's to adapt to their changes in habitat! The only thing that changed when there were disorders in teh genetic line, was the ability of the fruit fly to weed them out of existence, for the next generation. |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2006 : 16:06:40 [Permalink]
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Verlch is just pissed because one of the "unfathomably deep" philosophical questions in his sig has been answered. And we all know creationists hate nothing so much as answers to the questions they pose. They're supposed to remain unanswered. How else can they add the post script: "because god did it?"
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 05/31/2006 16:07:24 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2006 : 16:25:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Verlch:
You could bred millions of generations by having more than one line going.
That's like saying your first cousin Jethro (just guessing) who happened to be born on the same day you were is of a different generation than you are Verlch. Your logic is nothing if not entertaining…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2006 : 16:34:04 [Permalink]
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No, V is pissed because we don't argue like he does:
That's so much easier than researching and laboriously building evidentially supported theory leading to greater knowledge. So much easier to know it all at the beginning, even though what you might know is not even an hypothesis....., indeed, barely a conjecture and as far as science is concerned, not a very good one. And that is why credible, theistic scientists leave their theism at home and out of their studies. They deal in reality.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2006 : 19:02:04 [Permalink]
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| Reading Verlch's post makes me wonder if he hasn't forgotten to take his meds again. His ranting is semi-coherent. At best. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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